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USB Smartly rumors

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RootDet
Established Contributor

Re: USB Smartly rumors

From the start, I pointed out that the math behind the USBank Smarty Card didn’t work—except for extremely high spenders. The cashback model was designed around offering a lower savings rate compared to top HYSA's at other institutions, combined with interchange revenue. USBank likely believed they could make the card profitable by offsetting rewards with the difference between their lower savings rate and top HYSA rates, plus interchange fees.

 

However, the issue was that the average cardholder’s spending exceeded what could be covered within that bucket. Instead of breaking even through these offsets, USBank had to dip into profits from interest-bearing accounts to fund rewards, making the model unsustainable.

 

The card was ultimately structured to drive higher cash deposits and increase lending power via fractional reserve banking. It was particularly appealing to the "average Joe"—someone with significant savings, investments, or retirement accounts but not necessarily a high salary. However, for most users who couldn't put significant spending on the card, they were better off keeping their funds in cash-like securities such as bonds, CDs, or TIPS. Without high spending levels, they would never break even due to the opportunity cost of keeping cash at USBank rather than in higher-yielding alternatives.

 

A spending cap could have helped mitigate losses and make the program viable. While USBank likely anticipated some costs, they underestimated the impact of high spenders exceeding their profitability threshold, ultimately making the model unworkable. The kicker is they will loose the deposits and hence damange lending amounts.

 

That is my take on the intended purpose of this offering. My opinion and a $1 will buy you a cup of coffee. 




Message 21 of 89
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: USB Smartly rumors


@RootDet wrote:

My opinion and a $1 will buy you a cup of coffee. 


Where?!

 

While it seems likely that they underestimated the costs, it might not always be that bad.   We heard when the CSR was launched, the costs to Chase were greater than expected.   (Partly because of the big bonus).   Over time, Chase has increased the fee but the basic reward structure stays similar.  Chase is much bigger and presumably can better absorb apparent misteps, if that is what is was.

 

There MAY be some win in getting lots of interest in a card that you plan to nerf, maybe the consumers switch to another card etc.   But this does seem to be scaring the bank

Message 22 of 89
salt_water_swimming
New Contributor

Re: USB Smartly rumors

>The cashback model was designed around offering a lower savings rate compared to top HYSA's at other institutions, 

 

This doesn't make a lot of sense because they allow self directed  brokerages to count towards the 100k requirement and those can be invested anywhere. My 100k is in the same Vanguard ETF it was in when it was at Vanguard.

 

Maybe they will update it to only count actual banking products in a reach for profitability. But the initial structure doesn't work this way at all.





Message 23 of 89
CreditOnion
Established Member

Re: USB Smartly rumors


@salt_water_swimming wrote:

>The cashback model was designed around offering a lower savings rate compared to top HYSA's at other institutions, 

 

This doesn't make a lot of sense because they allow self directed  brokerages to count towards the 100k requirement and those can be invested anywhere. My 100k is in the same Vanguard ETF it was in when it was at Vanguard.

 

Maybe they will update it to only count actual banking products in a reach for profitability. But the initial structure doesn't work this way at all.


When I think about HYSA, I think about places like Wealthfront and other instituions that offer top-tier rates. And those were far higher than USBank's when the Smartly first came out (and still are).

 

Message 24 of 89
swankytiger
Frequent Contributor

Re: New US Bank Smartly Visa - up to 4% Cash Back

Ok so here is the reddit rumor that was posted yesterday, so note the date and of course its a rumor. Yikes if true though.

 

 

*This is not confirmed, but came from a friend of someone who works at USBANK*

Take it as it may happen, may not:

Smartly VISA update due to roll out April 14th, 2025:

2% still unlimited

Any earning bonus now capped at 10k/spend per statement cycle.

2.5% is now 10k+ (up from 5k)

3% still 50k

4% still 100k

Bonus % now excludes: Educational/school, gift cards, insurance, taxes, business to business transactions, and 3rd party bill payments.

Apparently for NEW card members after April 14th (Existing will be grandfathered in; for how long who knows?)

ONLY checking account balances count now towards the 10k/50k/100k requirement.

Savings balances and investment balances do not count after 4/14 for new cardmembers.

Main Card 0/6 1/12 7/24

Sock Drawer

Chopping Block
Message 25 of 89
1LostArk
Regular Contributor

Re: New US Bank Smartly Visa - up to 4% Cash Back

I knew this card would get nerfed. Same as AOD, just clearly unsustainable. I wonder what USB was thinking to even release this.


Business Cards:
Message 26 of 89
Gregory1776
Valued Contributor

Re: USB Smartly rumors


@911gt34life wrote:

can you imagine applying for this card and wasting inquiry ... 


 

 😑

ABUSEIMG_3383.jpeg

 

AmEx BCP 30k
EveryDay 11.5K
Discover 29k
Wells Fargo AC 25k
Chase Amazon 23.5k
US Bank Cash+ 20K
Cash+#2 14.4K
Citi Simplicity 13.6K
Smartly Visa 17k SL
BILT 18k SL
PenFed Loan 2.3k/8k
Message 27 of 89
911gt34life
Established Contributor

Re: USB Smartly rumors

There's a new update rumor

 

 U.S. Bank Smartly Changes After April 14th: Exclusions on 4% Earn (Tax, etc) & Brokerage Funds Exclusion (For New Signups)

 

doctor of credit

 

  1. Bonus earn rate now excludes: Educational/school, gift cards, insurance, taxes, business-to-business transactions, and third-party bill payments.
  2. Any earning bonus is now capped at 10k/spend per statement cycle.
  3. For NEW cardmembers who sign up after April 14th: only checking account balances will count towards the 10k/50k/100k requirement. Savings balances and investment balances do not count.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>
Message 28 of 89
ptatohed
Valued Contributor

Re: USB Smartly rumors

I'm having a hard time believing that they would require the money to be in checking. There is not a person on earth who would put $100,000 in checking just to get 4% CB on their spending.
[ Signature in dire need of updates. It's on my to-do list. Smiley Wink ]


5% CB rotating: ;
Everyday 3% CB: ;
Everyday 5%: ;
Companion Card: ;
Everyday 2.2% CB: ;
Retired to sock drawer after AOD (kept alive w/ 1 purchase every 6 mo): ;
On my radar: ;
Still Waiting for an Invite: ;
No hope:
Message 29 of 89
Patient957
Frequent Contributor

Re: USB Smartly rumors


@ptatohed wrote:
I'm having a hard time believing that they would require the money to be in checking. There is not a person on earth who would put $100,000 in checking just to get 4% CB on their spending.

Perhaps that's the whole point.  They can nerf it instead of ending the card.  That way they save face and don't suffer the embarrassment of ending a program they just started. They just make the rules so unpalatable almost nobody will apply.

Message 30 of 89
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