(changes to guidelines) 9/30/24 I can see where individual card utilization should be adhered to similiar to total utilization.
I've been playing with requesting credit line decreases over the past two years and have found that it has not hindered my credit score or ability to acquire new CC's. Reasoning: I had been denied a new CC due to the fact the issuer felt I was at or exceeded my overall existing credit they felt comfortable with, total or within the issuers family.
By reqesting CLD's I have made room for adding additional CC's, especially within a single issuer. Also, I reduce or zero out the cash advance feature (note: many issuers don't allow for reducing the cash advance to zero, BUT, they can reduce the cash advance limit, often determined by a percentage of overall CL). I like to churn for SUB's for the ultimate return. I keep a core group of cards for the best return when not churning and for maintaining good age of credit. Separately, GC's, debit/checking/savings accounts interplay for further returns. I am not a big spender, only what's necessary, if I can use a card to finance a new checking account with SUB, better.
My guideline,
1. Keep at minimum one CC at an elevated CL for emergencies but also to demonstrate to issuers that you have that access. This card would be a general flat rate fee card with your best return. If traveling you might want to have a second one with no FTF's and as a backup. After performing CLD's on your "keeper" cards, after a month or two, perform a CLI on one of your elevated CC's so as to demonstrate that your in good grace and in charge of your credit. Banks can't differentiate between a forced CLD and a requested CLD on the credit report. So a small increase on your elevated keeper card(s) is a positive that can offset the earlier CLD's. NOTE: This won't be an issue once you have set your core keeper cards credit limits.
2. For all other keeper CC's set your CL accordingly, so as your max spend doesn't exceed 9% of your CL. If you exceed that number just pay part of it down early before end of billing cycle. When getting a new card with a SUB, usually a set higher spend is necessary to satisfy the SUB. No need to do a CLD for CC's your just going to churn and close. But if your going to make that card a "keeper" then adjust CL accordingly after the last card payment in conjunction with fullfilling the SUB.
Example: (keeper card) Citi Custom Cash, 5% return on category most used, up to $500 spend per billing cycle, which is the number I know I'm not going to normally exceed, since I'll only designate and spend in one category . CL, 12 times of $500 spend, so max $6000 credit limit is all I need. Am I going to normally use $500 per month, probably never, other than during the initial spend for the SUB. (In fact, just checked, I have two Citi Custom Cash Cards set at CL of 1000 each, and I rarely go over $100 per billing cycle.) (Issuer gave me something like 15 to 20k to start CL, ridiculous) (I probably got a little over zealous on the CLD, but no harm done)
3. Do not exceed the overall credit utilization of 9% for keeping a good Fico score, lower is better.
4. Do not carry a balance or seek to do so even at an introductory offer (At least not one you can't pay off immediately). You are in charge, don't let the issuer be in charge or give them the opportunity.
5. Keep your TCL (total credit limit) at a reasonable ratio to your overall income. No need to excessively exceed a ratio of 1 to 1, lower, better. Remember the churn is your goal for elevated returns. No need to have excessive CC's open, they can be churned again with time. Keep a handful of CC's for aging and best returns when not churning.
Note YMMV:
I have a long CC history with an exceptional Fico score maintained in high 700's. Don't fret over hard pulls or opening/closing accounts. These are minor hits that bounce back fast. SUB's are your greatest return, period. Use and abuse to whatever means you can. You will be surprised at how often issuers come back for more. To them it's just a numbers game. You control where you fall into those numbers. Be the exception. If an issuer won't let you play, move on to the next, more than enough issuers to keep you playing. Can always take a rest (Garden) when you tire of it, or are forced to, reset. A good 6 month to 1 year reset can give you new life when needed.
Cheers, happy churning!!!
I'll try to update this outline as new information/experiences come to light. 9/29/24
Citi:
Chase:
Aven:
RH:
@ElvisCaprice wrote:(changes to guidelines) 9/30/24 I can see where individual card utilization should be adhered to similiar to total utilization.
I've been playing with requesting credit line decreases over the past two years and have found that it has not hindered my credit score or ability to acquire new CC's. Reasoning: I had been denied a new CC due to the fact the issuer felt I was at or exceeded my overall existing credit they felt comfortable with, total or within the issuers family.
By reqesting CLD's I have made room for adding additional CC's, especially within a single issuer. Also, I reduce or zero out the cash advance feature (note: many issuers don't allow for reducing the cash advance to zero, BUT, they can reduce the cash advance limit, often determined by a percentage of overall CL). I like to churn for SUB's for the ultimate return. I keep a core group of cards for the best return when not churning and for maintaining good age of credit. Separately, GC's, debit/checking/savings accounts interplay for further returns. I am not a big spender, only what's necessary, if I can use a card to finance a new checking account with SUB, better.
My guideline,
1. Keep at minimum one CC at an elevated CL for emergencies but also to demonstrate to issuers that you have that access. This card would be a general flat rate fee card with your best return. If traveling you might want to have a second one with no FTF's and as a backup. After performing CLD's on your "keeper" cards, after a month or two, perform a CLI on one of your elevated CC's so as to demonstrate that your in good grace and in charge of your credit. Banks can't differentiate between a forced CLD and a requested CLD on the credit report. So a small increase on your elevated keeper card(s) is a positive that can offset the earlier CLD's. NOTE: This won't be an issue once you have set your core keeper cards credit limits.
2. For all other keeper CC's set your CL accordingly, so as your max spend doesn't exceed 9% of your CL. If you exceed that number just pay part of it down early before end of billing cycle. When getting a new card with a SUB, usually a set higher spend is necessary to satisfy the SUB. No need to do a CLD for CC's your just going to churn and close. But if your going to make that card a "keeper" then adjust CL accordingly after the last card payment in conjunction with fullfilling the SUB.
Example: (keeper card) Citi Custom Cash, 5% return on category most used, up to $500 spend per billing cycle, which is the number I know I'm not going to normally exceed, since I'll only designate and spend in one category . CL, 12 times of $500 spend, so max $6000 credit limit is all I need. Am I going to normally use $500 per month, probably never, other than during the initial spend for the SUB. (In fact, just checked, I have two Citi Custom Cash Cards set at CL of 1000 each, and I rarely go over $100 per billing cycle.) (Issuer gave me something like 15 to 20k to start CL, ridiculous) (I probably got a little over zealous on the CLD, but no harm done)
3. Do not exceed the overall credit utilization of 9% for keeping a good Fico score, lower is better.
4. Do not carry a balance or seek to do so even at an introductory offer (At least not one you can't pay off immediately). You are in charge, don't let the issuer be in charge or give them the opportunity.
5. Keep your TCL (total credit limit) at a reasonable ratio to your overall income. No need to excessively exceed a ratio of 1 to 1, lower, better. Remember the churn is your goal for elevated returns. No need to have excessive CC's open, they can be churned again with time. Keep a handful of CC's for aging and best returns when not churning.
Note YMMV:
I have a long CC history with an exceptional Fico score maintained in high 700's. Don't fret over hard pulls or opening/closing accounts. These are minor hits that bounce back fast. SUB's are your greatest return, period. Use and abuse to whatever means you can. You will be surprised at how often issuers come back for more. To them it's just a numbers game. You control where you fall into those numbers. Be the exception. If an issuer won't let you play, move on to the next, more than enough issuers to keep you playing. Can always take a rest (Garden) when you tire of it, or are forced to, reset. A good 6 month to 1 year reset can give you new life when needed.
Cheers, happy churning!!!
I'll try to update this outline as new information/experiences come to light. 9/29/24
I like and appreciate some of the clarifications you made, @ElvisCaprice, specifically about the utilization thresholds and not lowering cards too far. And again, there are many good points you made in your posting. Still, like in my second message in this thread, I would like to summarize where I would disagree or have concerns.
- It's true that churning SUBs can be the most lucrative rewards strategy. It's also true that many of our members choose not to use that strategy at all, or to use it nearly as extensively as you advocate. Perhaps the title of your posting could have mentioned these suggestions apply primarily for those who are following your method, since some of this advice doesn't apply once a churning strategy is removed. (I don't believe the forum edits will allow you to modify it at this point, however.)
- While CLDs have not affected your credit score, there are members who may read this and don't fully understand the mechanics of FICO who could adversely affect their credit score with CLD.
- For our members who are new to credit or rebuilding, opening cards for churning and then closing them takes up valuable slots (x/6; x/12; x/24) for "keeper" cards which could be used to build credit age more effectively. Consequently, IMO, the churning strategy is something that is best pursued by members with moderate to advanced credit file development.
- Reducing credit limits may be unnecessary to be approved for new cards. While a minority of underwriters might flag an application, mainly from smaller credit unions, the majority will either approve the card (assuming other profile metrics are in order) or reallocate existing credit if an aggregate limit at that institution has already been attained.
- Just like churning is a perfectly valid strategy, carrying a balance (especially at introductory BT rates) may be a necessary tool for our members to manage difficult financial situations. We always advise our members, "Finances before FICO." Long term, of course, trying to get out of debt and stay there is a good objective.
@Aim_High wrote:
- It's true that churning SUBs can be the most lucrative rewards strategy. It's also true that many of our members choose not to use that strategy at all, or to use it nearly as extensively as you advocate. Perhaps the title of your posting could have mentioned these suggestions apply primarily for those who are following your method, since some of this advice doesn't apply once a churning strategy is removed. (I don't believe the forum edits will allow you to modify it at this point, however.)
- While CLDs have not affected your credit score, there are members who may read this and don't fully understand the mechanics of FICO who could adversely affect their credit score with CLD.
- For our members who are new to credit or rebuilding, opening cards for churning and then closing them takes up valuable slots (x/6; x/12; x/24) for "keeper" cards which could be used to build credit age more effectively. Consequently, IMO, the churning strategy is something that is best pursued by members with moderate to advanced credit file development.
- Reducing credit limits may be unnecessary to be approved for new cards. While a minority of underwriters might flag an application, mainly from smaller credit unions, the majority will either approve the card (assuming other profile metrics are in order) or reallocate existing credit if an aggregate limit at that institution has already been attained.
- Just like churning is a perfectly valid strategy, carrying a balance (especially at introductory BT rates) may be a necessary tool for our members to manage difficult financial situations. We always advise our members, "Finances before FICO." Long term, of course, trying to get out of debt and stay there is a good objective.
I thought long and hard about this before your comments and after. Even considered just dropping the guidelines. I concluded that CLD is another tool to use, sparingly, regardless of strategy.
There are far too many variables to seekers of CC's and their various needs/conditions to be able to draw a general guidline. Most seekers should probably ignore the option of CLD, even churners. Wait until you come up against conditions that would warrant their use, then proceed slowly. Used carefully, with utilization in mind, they can be helpful in keeping credit limits in check and more in line with ones income.
As far as carrying a balance, I am still of the thought that CC's are not the tool to use without the means of paying it off immediately. Any other options for credit should be exhausted first. The cost is too high. If you have to carry a balance with no other options, then you have larger issues that would probably exclude you from even seeking additional credit until rectified.
@ElvisCaprice wrote:
I thought long and hard about this before your comments and after. Even considered just dropping the guidelines. I concluded that CLD is another tool to use, sparingly, regardless of strategy.
There are far too many variables to seekers of CC's and their various needs/conditions to be able to draw a general guidline. Most seekers should probably ignore the option of CLD, even churners. Wait until you come up against conditions that would warrant their use, then proceed slowly. Used carefully, with utilization in mind, they can be helpful in keeping credit limits in check and more in line with ones income.
As far as carrying a balance, I am still of the thought that CC's are not the tool to use without the means of paying it off immediately. Any other options for credit should be exhausted first. The cost is too high. If you have to carry a balance with no other options, then you have larger issues that would probably exclude you from even seeking additional credit until rectified.
First, @ElvisCaprice, I wanted to thank you for the respectful dialogue we've been able to have about your postings and your willingness to reevaluate. To clarify again, I never meant to dismiss your CLD strategy or the reasoning behind it. It's working for you and that is great. One thing I've learned after a few years on the forum is we have FAR more "lurkers" than we do members. They may be absorbing every little detail and consider it relevant to them, whether it applies to them or not. Some of us on My FICO feel a responsibility to identify the caveats about an idea, or to discuss both the pro's and con's of it so readers can make the best choice for themselves.
I totally agree with you when you said, "I concluded that CLD is another tool to use, sparingly, regardless of strategy." Yes, there may be times it is needed. I just didn't recommend it as a core strategy for most of our members. I also enthusiastically agreed when you said, "There are far too many variables to seekers of CC's and their various needs/conditions to be able to draw a general guidline." And that, my friend, is why I try to be careful giving general advice because there are so many complicating factors.
And I even agree with you that we should attempt to refrain from carrying balances on credit cards at normal APRs. And yes, at normal APRs, "The cost is too high." At one point, I was advocating that most people need at least one "low APR" card for emergencies that they cannot to pay for with cash on hand. (For example, a major medical bill or an essential but unexpected home or car repair.) Sure, ideally, having an emergeny fund will prevent having to ever use credit but many consumers haven't done that yet. I am at a point in my financial journey where I didn't feel I would ever need that low APR card but also, I realized that if I did have a need to finance an expense, I have BT offers on many of my cards at very inexpensive rates (often just the nominal BT fees of 3% to 5%, which is far cheaper than I would ever get on any credit card.) So my "emergency plan" beyond my savings changed to using my best rewards card for the expense, then moving it within the grace period to the best BT offer I had on any card. The rewards rate also essentially helps to minimize the BT fee. If I put an expense on my BofA Premium Rewards Elite at 2.625% cash rewards and moved it to a one-year 0% offer with 3% BT fee, I'm basically paying 0.375% interest for deferring the expense for 12 months. That would be a fairly marginal hit to my wallet, if it was ever needed! 
Used appropriately, the cards become just ONE piece of the puzzle that facilitates taking care of an emergency without having to forgo it altogether. And it buys time to figure out where to get the funds or the best alternative to paying it down.
@Aim_High wrote:And I even agree with you that we should attempt to refrain from carrying balances on credit cards at normal APRs. And yes, at normal APRs, "The cost is too high." At one point, I was advocating that most people need at least one "low APR" card for emergencies that they cannot to pay for with cash on hand. (For example, a major medical bill or an essential but unexpected home or car repair.) Sure, ideally, having an emergeny fund will prevent having to ever use credit but many consumers haven't done that yet. I am at a point in my financial journey where I didn't feel I would ever need that low APR card but also, I realized that if I did have a need to finance an expense, I have BT offers on many of my cards at very inexpensive rates (often just the nominal BT fees of 3% to 5%, which is far cheaper than I would ever get on any credit card.) So my "emergency plan" beyond my savings changed to using my best rewards card for the expense, then moving it within the grace period to the best BT offer I had on any card. The rewards rate also essentially helps to minimize the BT fee. If I put an expense on my BofA Premium Rewards Elite at 2.625% cash rewards and moved it to a one-year 0% offer with 3% BT fee, I'm basically paying 0.375% interest for deferring the expense for 12 months. That would be a fairly marginal hit to my wallet, if it was ever needed!
Without really putting much thought to the process, I have been doing similar. I initially got NFCU Platinum as a mix: to utilize it for a balance transfer in the short-term and then to keep it as a low APR card for emergencies in the long-term. I have had it for almost four years now and have not used it for an emergency purchase even once, but I have used balance transfer offers on other cards several times over the same period. At any given time, I usually have at least three decent balance transfer offers - a perk to having cards from many issuers.
So recently, I have been considering product changing the Platinum to cashRewards. I don't need another non-category card, but clearly I don't need a low APR card either...
APR 
P2 Chopping Block 
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
I found a need to request CLIs on my cards so that reported card utilizations remained under 29% and aggregate UT remained under 9% based on 2x normal monthly spend.
Why?
1. Inflation over the last 30-40 years since I acquired my keeper cards eroded the purchasing power of my SLs.
2. I want to avoid credit score penalties when cards report monthly spend balances. Therefore, CLs need to be sufficiently high (refer to thresholds above).
3. I prefer a simple and low stress approach to managing credit/bills. I allow all charges to report on statements and then PIF before due date. None of this AZE1 or AZE2 game playing. No progress payments and no pre-pay to $0 to reduce # card statements reporting.
In summary, my guidelines for revolving credit are:
1.Aggregate revolving CL at or above 20x average monthly CL spend.
2. Individual card CLs at or above 6x typical monthly card spend.
3. Recommend 5 cards to spread spend and safeguard against cancelled accounts due to fraud or any other reason.
So, if typical monthly spend is $5k all cards combined, aggregate CL should be at or above $100k. If typical spend on one card is $2.5k, card CL should be at or above $15k.
Reaching these CL milestones has allowed me to relax and not fret over revolving utilization. Score dips are minimal unless I purposefully spike UT through abnormal spend.
Last point, I suggest an aggregate CL between 0.5 and 1.0 gross annual income. This puts some guard rails on debt accumulation. If 20x average monthly spend exceeds 1.0 annual income, consider lowering spend level.
P.S. Reduced income in retirement typically spikes the ratio of (aggregate CL)/(gross income). I would not advocate CLDs for this group just to drop ratio to pre-retirement levels.
Great insights, @Thomas_Thumb, and you mirror some of my own thoughts. I'm approaching retirement and one reason I've tried to raise my individual and aggregate CLs is exactly how you described it. I realize getting higher limits while I've got legitimately high income to claim would be easier, and I also wanted some padding for the future effects of inflation on my buying power over the next 20-30 years. Even with lower income and a higher CL/income ratio in retirement, I have no plans to voluntarily reduce any credit limits beyond possibly just closing some less useful accounts. And like you, I appreciate the value of maintaining low utilization without having to prepay any accounts. (In my case, my thresholds are higher than yours as I want to maintain less than 8.9%, but the concept is identical.) I also appreciate you sharing your targets on CL to spend and CL to income. I don't specifically set my accounts at a certain level but maintaining those levels (or above) is a good goal.
@Anonymous wrote:Speaking as someone in retirement... I am not sure about the need to maintain great credit scores. Unless you have a pension or side income, documentable income is going to be fairly small (compared to now) so you probably won't be applying for a lot of new cards or loans. But I guess it doesn't hurt.
Right, about the income. And I also see no problem with trying to maintain good FICO scores, just in case one wanted to finance a purchase and credit would be pulled. I don't see myself applying for a lot of cards in retirement and will probably downsize my wallet somewhat, albeit slowly. One change I made was adding some good travel cards since DW and I hope to travel more in retirement. I like having a diversity of lenders, though, so no hurry to close a bunch of cards nor to decrease limits, even though it appears I have more than I will ever need. The erosion of purchasing power could change that slowly over time.