Why Not Go Ahead and Send Tax Return now than wait? AMEX

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

As a counterpoint to the "I'm never sending my tax returns to anyone other than the government" crowd: have any of you ever applied for a mortgage? Many circumstances nowadays require one or two years of complete personal tax returns. It's pretty industry standard for a home loan depending on your income profile and real estate portfolio (in general, if you're either a 1099 earner, self-employed, or own any rental properties). Probably not as much so for a credit card, but nevertheless, if you're comfortable providing returns to a mortgage lender, why not a credit card lender?

I'm sorry, but I don't get the mass hysteria about providing a tax return if needed, which quite honestly has very little on it that can't either be gleaned elsewhere (SSNs, address history, dependents, etc) or estimated. What exactly do you think is going to happen to you if a financial institution sees your tax returns? I guess I'm desensitized working in lending where we see hundreds of returns in a given year, but please someone explain it to me.

With that being said, I DO agree with most posters that AmEx likely wouldn't know what to do with your returns if you sent them in unsolicited. Furthermore, it would be no guarantee that later down the line they wouldn't want a more recent copy of those returns for some reason.

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IMO, the reason why people are more willing to deal with tax retruns for mortgages is for three reasons:

1) Accepted practice.     With very exceptions, if I want a mortgage, I have to do this.   So no amount of shopping around or complaining will change this.    It's still very rare for credit cards companies to ask, so, if inclined, I can take my business to an issuer without that requirement.  With a mortgage, I cannot.

2) Amount.   Rightly or wrongly, I might feel that if I am asking for $500K, it's more reasonable to accept scrutiny than for a $10K, 25K etc credit card.   Since the loan is secured, the risk to the mortgage lender is probably less, but it does feel more understandable to me.

3) Timing.  AFAIK, mortgage companues do not, midway through the mortgage, request tax documents, once you have been approved you are done.   It's getting it later (although this makes perfect sense from an issuer viewpoint) that feels intrusive.

If cc issuers required tax returns at application time (and at other times as well), people would probably feel differently.   Some of course might not apply, and others would apply for a lot less cards.   But given the situation, I can understand why people don't want to.

[baller4life]

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@Anonymous wrote:

As a counterpoint to the "I'm never sending my tax returns to anyone other than the government" crowd: have any of you ever applied for a mortgage? Many circumstances nowadays require one or two years of complete personal tax returns. It's pretty industry standard for a home loan depending on your income profile and real estate portfolio (in general, if you're either a 1099 earner, self-employed, or own any rental properties). Probably not as much so for a credit card, but nevertheless, if you're comfortable providing returns to a mortgage lender, why not a credit card lender?

I'm sorry, but I don't get the mass hysteria about providing a tax return if needed, which quite honestly has very little on it that can't either be gleaned elsewhere (SSNs, address history, dependents, etc) or estimated. What exactly do you think is going to happen to you if a financial institution sees your tax returns? I guess I'm desensitized working in lending where we see hundreds of returns in a given year, but please someone explain it to me.

With that being said, I DO agree with most posters that AmEx likely wouldn't know what to do with your returns if you sent them in unsolicited. Furthermore, it would be no guarantee that later down the line they wouldn't want a more recent copy of those returns for some reason.

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It is to be expected to have to provide tax returns for a mortgage. However, many find it too invasive for a credit card. Especially from a company like Synchrony that will share data with a 3rd party. Tax returns contain such sensitive information including spousal info if file jointly. Many,including myself just do not feel it's worth it for a credit card. Amex maybe. But certainly not Synchrony!

[Anonymous]

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@baller4life wrote:

It is to be expected to have to provide tax returns for a mortgage. However, many find it too invasive for a credit card. Especially from a company like Synchrony that will share data with a 3rd party. Tax returns contain such sensitive information including spousal info if file jointly. Many,including myself just do not feel it's worth it for a credit card. Amex maybe. But certainly not Synchrony!

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FTC rules protect us consumers against lenders distributing our financial data with abandon. Generally you have the right to opt out of 3rd party sharing. Realistically speaking, there would no reason for a lender to share actual tax returns with affiliates for marketing purposes... the type of data shared would be more along the lines of income info, demographic info, etc. Regardless, you DO have the right to opt out of that sharing (and as someone who works for a bank, I know that bank examiners DO check on this type of thing with stiff penalties for noncompliance)

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0222-privacy-choices-your-personal-financial-information

I understand your point of view and it makes sense that you might not care as much about Synchrony as Amex (I personally wouldn't even bother applying for a Synchrony card in the first place, even if I were credit building). I guess what I don't get is the whole aspect of it being "worth it", since I don't see any immediate sacrifice or tangible effect of submitting your tax returns. If I want a certain card or want to keep a certain card, and returns are requested, I'd send the 4506 as asked for without any real fear of whether Synchrony or Amex or my mortgage lender has my returns or not.

One final technical note is that most of the time it's the 4506-T form that's asked for. Those technically aren't your tax returns but an IRS transcript of some of the key figures on your return, which isn't as comprehensive as an actual return. I guess it's semantics though.

[creditguy]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

As a counterpoint to the "I'm never sending my tax returns to anyone other than the government" crowd: have any of you ever applied for a mortgage? Many circumstances nowadays require one or two years of complete personal tax returns. It's pretty industry standard for a home loan depending on your income profile and real estate portfolio (in general, if you're either a 1099 earner, self-employed, or own any rental properties). Probably not as much so for a credit card, but nevertheless, if you're comfortable providing returns to a mortgage lender, why not a credit card lender?

I'm sorry, but I don't get the mass hysteria about providing a tax return if needed, which quite honestly has very little on it that can't either be gleaned elsewhere (SSNs, address history, dependents, etc) or estimated. What exactly do you think is going to happen to you if a financial institution sees your tax returns? I guess I'm desensitized working in lending where we see hundreds of returns in a given year, but please someone explain it to me.

With that being said, I DO agree with most posters that AmEx likely wouldn't know what to do with your returns if you sent them in unsolicited. Furthermore, it would be no guarantee that later down the line they wouldn't want a more recent copy of those returns for some reason.

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IMO, the reason why people are more willing to deal with tax retruns for mortgages is for three reasons:

1) Accepted practice.     With very exceptions, if I want a mortgage, I have to do this.   So no amount of shopping around or complaining will change this.    It's still very rare for credit cards companies to ask, so, if inclined, I can take my business to an issuer without that requirement.  With a mortgage, I cannot.

2) Amount.   Rightly or wrongly, I might feel that if I am asking for $500K, it's more reasonable to accept scrutiny than for a $10K, 25K etc credit card.   Since the loan is secured, the risk to the mortgage lender is probably less, but it does feel more understandable to me.

3) Timing.  AFAIK, mortgage companues do not, midway through the mortgage, request tax documents, once you have been approved you are done.   It's getting it later (although this makes perfect sense from an issuer viewpoint) that feels intrusive.

If cc issuers required tax returns at application time (and at other times as well), people would probably feel differently.   Some of course might not apply, and others would apply for a lot less cards.   But given the situation, I can understand why people don't want to.

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That pretty much says it all, there is a huge difference, Great points. 

[creativeZero7]

Agreed! For a mortgage, a major transaction, it is a whole different ballgame. Lenders have a formal process you follow and it is clear. A credit card company, for a couple thousand dollar line of credit to request these things after the fact as stated is just suspicious. If they need tax info, they should require it as part of their formal process of application. The world of credit cards has their own process we are all accustomed to (credit reports) and it is strange that they would pitch a curveball without a formal process and explanation. I am not a synchrony customer but the whole issue baffles me.

Taxes tell a story meant for uncle sam to interprit, not a credit card company serving their own interest. I think when some people hear objection to giving up taxes they automatically assume there is something to hide and I don't think that's the case. Tax returns can be simple for some and complex for others. Each tells a story meant for the IRS to understand, not a credit analyst at a bank for a 10k credit limit. A 500k morgtage or whatever amount, that's a different story. You are borrowing substantial money.

I have to admit I am not familiar with the form being asked of customers, it may be just highlights of a return but it's still very strange. Unless participating in odd activity with your credit or reason to believe fraud has occured, I just don't see a reason for it, period. They already see payment history, credit patterns and all that fun stuff.

[Anonymous]

I agree wholeheartedly with the opinions that it's not industry standard, or they should have asked for it before, or it's "suspicious", or "it's only Synchrony", but I still haven't been convinced of an objective argument for a concrete, tangible reason why I shouldn't share my returns with a credit card lender. But I guess credit cards aren't always objective, rational matters (if they were, nobody would chase $40,000 credit limits) and some people are just more worried about this type of thing than I am. I guess I'm in the minority here- to each their own!

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly with the opinions that it's not industry standard, or they should have asked for it before, or it's "suspicious", or "it's only Synchrony", but I still haven't been convinced of an objective argument for a concrete, tangible reason why I shouldn't share my returns with a credit card lender. But I guess credit cards aren't always objective, rational matters (if they were, nobody would chase $40,000 credit limits) and some people are just more worried about this type of thing than I am. I guess I'm in the minority here- to each their own!

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I guess it depends what you count of objective!    I think the goal "minimize distribution of personal information" is reasonable (otherwise, as suggested, lets all put our DNA on every available register), so if you don't have to provide it, don't.

Other reasons have been provided in the past, especially for those submitting joint returns.   My spouse may have nothing to do with the credit card, but his/her information is included (and this has things like who is blind, number of children etc)

[Grafton88]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly with the opinions that it's not industry standard, or they should have asked for it before, or it's "suspicious", or "it's only Synchrony", but I still haven't been convinced of an objective argument for a concrete, tangible reason why I shouldn't share my returns with a credit card lender. But I guess credit cards aren't always objective, rational matters (if they were, nobody would chase $40,000 credit limits) and some people are just more worried about this type of thing than I am. I guess I'm in the minority here- to each their own!

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I guess I am kind of surprised by the fact that for a mortgage, that is back by real property, we allow them full access to our financial lives.  For a huge CC limit we want to limit their intrusion.

I understand that many people are worried about financial institutions or the government pouring over their most intimate information.  I had a government security clearance for 35 years.  I had to fill out yearly financial statements.  Is was a lose your clearance, lose your job, lose your pension type of thing. 

I think the most important concern I have seen is that some information is either not really needed or will be shared with other companies.

I think that there should either be some kind of standard that sets up what information can be asked for whatever type of credit.  It has to be upfront.  Then there can be yearly updates or when there are major changes.

Freezing of accounts or asking for certain types of information from a select few customers isn't the way to go about a business that is built on mutual trust.

[Anonymous]

One of the things I learned when I was in the Army was never volunteer.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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FTC rules protect us consumers against lenders distributing our financial data with abandon.

@humuhumunukunukuapua'a wrote:

LexisNexis has had multiple class-action lawsuits filed against their company for repeated violations of the FCRA. I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.

I also agree that it's important to minimize distribution of our personal, sensitive financial data whenever it is possible to do so.