@bs6054 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
I think it's clear from what I have posted on this topic that people make their own decisions, but seemed to be lacking all the information necessary to make an informed decision. I hope you aren't going to come back and state that informed decisions are somehow sloppy or irresponsible.
I really think that is the crux of the argument. Has anyone here ever disagreed with the statement "You don't have to do business with them" which pro-FR's seem to be constantly saying. Yes, we all get that!
There is a spectrum of ways of identifying risk,including:
1) Please tell us your income and we will believe you
2) We DO believe you, but can you also give us W2s and other statements showing source of income
3) Show us your tax return, and we may ask for more documents.
4) The equivalent of a full IRS research audit: (ALL documents, going back years)
5) Lie detector with waterboarding if anything questionable comes up.
4 and 5 are probably going to be more successful in identifying risk than 3. Of course, more people will choose to opt out if they were the choices, but apparently these are the bad credit risks Amex wouldn't want any way (since they all lied about their income).
What I think McArthur has done here, at least for me, is raising the question if 3 is also too intrusive in ways we didn't suspect, and that might change some people's decisions about whether the benefit of an Amex account outweighs the privacy concerns.
Exactly. I mean, shouldn't all decisions be informed?
Funny how the SSA posts big warnings on their site about being careful when providing a 4506 T to anybody. I suppose we should demand that they modify that warning so it states "Be careful except when giving it to AmEx ... ", right?
* bs6054, hopefully others are as bright as you are and know sarcasm when they see it. Darned forums for not providing a sarcastic smiley! 
@Anonymous wrote:
@bs6054 wrote:I think it (top secret) was hyperbole rather than his real minimum requirement.
Just going over my tax return, leading to a question for McArthur or anyone who knows.
Being a good person (or rather being too scared not to, $10K fine for not filing, then a fine of the greater of $100K and 50% of assets for failure to identify an account), I have identified my offshore banking assets to the Treasury Department on TD F 90 22.1. Since this isn't filed with the tax return, does this show on the transcript returned from a 4506 T? If not, then a lot of assets might not be apparent in the FR, but I guess you could chose to tell them.
They would not see that information.
That said, there are other often fruitful ways to tell if you have overseas assets. Are your reported interest earnings greater than your 1099 totals? Overseas banks pay interest on accounts, but rarely, if ever, issue 1099s. Now, whether you reported that overseas interest income is another thing, but you should have. Have you claimed foreign income exclusion on your returns? Do you have a SSN appearing on your tax transcript that was issued since randomization took effect?
Just like FICO has developed a scoring system that makes a science out of predicting economic health, there are entities that have made a science out of reverse engineering common financial data such as that found on your tax returns. I wouldn't think AmEx has reached that level, but then again we already do know they monitor where you shop and use that data against you.
I have doubts about how often non-1099ed income is from overseas investments, Most of my income, which is a mix of interest and investments for each of the last 3 years has not been 1099'ed.. I have no foreign assets.
As a further example, over the prior 20 years many home sellers financed a portion of the price. The interest is reportable income and it is not 1099'ed.
@bs6054 wrote:I think it was specifically about 1099-INT vs declared interest. I am guessing that home seller financing isn't reported as interest (but don't know).
Just curious why your interest earnings aren't on 1099-INT. I know if amounts per account are below a certain threshold, no 1099 is issued (but the amount is reportable).
Taking a foreign tax deduction of course makes it clear that something foreign (investments, assets, income) is involved, but not all interest bearing accounts deduct foreign tax at source (mine do).
Re McArthur's comment:
Now, whether you reported that overseas interest income is another thing, but you should have.
Yes, reporting the account to the Treasury and not reporting the interest to the IRS seems a little living on the wild side, I would assume information is shared!
I have, over the last 10 years, shifted much of my financial assets out of brokerages and banks and into private investments including some loans/mortgages. Only institutions issue 1099's. Of course the income is still taxable and I do declare it aand pay the tax. The government is gradually increasing the scope of payments requiring a 1099 but it hasn't affected me yet.
One example most are familiar with,: If you lend a friend 10k at 10% the 1k/y you get is not 1099'ed but one still owes tax on it.
As the newest newbie on the credit block, can I ask-
What would trigger a company to conduct an FR? Is it just common practice or are there behaviors one should watch out for so as to avoid the inconvenience?
What are they looking for with these other than fudged income?
Starting Score: 580
bs6054-
Thanks for posting those older threads! I am learning so much, I feel like I am going to credit school!