help international student

[Anonymous]

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@ibmrad7 wrote:

Also for us (Immigrants) here, if this was the case, We can never buy a Car or House unless we have a Green Card or Citizenship. I have a car, I can leave for my country tomorrow leaving everything behind forever but that doesnt stop any bank from approving me for Auto Loan, CC's and even Mortgages.

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but the fact is Wells Fargo indeed asked for my residency and i dont know why

[Anonymous]

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@vish1 wrote:

Tony: Are you just saying they rejected you since you are not a US resident out of your imagination? No bank is allowed to discriminate based on your sex, race or nationality.

Why are you so much against a secure card? The way you are going on and applying multiple cards, you will **bleep** up your credit.

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here's the letter from Wells Fargo:

...unfortunately we are unable to approve your application at this time for the following reason(s): Not a permanent US resident ....

and i called them back yesterday, they said the only cc i could apply is the secured cc.

i dont want a secured cc because if i put a deposit like 500 bucks i am afraid of passing the cl or if i put a deposit like 1500 or higher i wont have enough money to pay for my payments. i am still a student and not have a permanent job yet

[haulingthescoreup]

TonyLau, is your university affiliated with a credit union? If so, I would join it and get a card through them, even if it is a secured card. It's just a temporary stepping stone, and credit unions are generally much better to work with than large banks.

Bank of America used to be a great place to start for new arrivals to the US, but that might have changed in the last few years.

Capitol One is popular because if you travel overseas (home or wherever), they don't charge a foreign transaction fee.

I would still try a CU first, though. Another alternative would be to get a small personal loan from a CU and pay it back over 7-8 months' time, long enough to establish some history.

As someone else pointed out, the problem is that you don't have a credit report yet, so there is no "track record" for lenders to evaluate. Once you have that, everything else will fall into line. After six months of an account reporting, you will also have FICO credit scores.

Banks are very conservative with new credit these days, as a result of the credit meltdown, so you're in a temporary trap similar to that of those who can't get their first jobs because they have no work experience, and they can't get work experience until they have their first jobs.

A good place to get advice for your particular location would be at your International Students office at your university. I'm sure that yours is a very common problem, and they might well be able to tell you if a particular bank or CU in your area is cooperative.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

As much as people may believe that my post is incorrect or racist, the fact of the matter is I did 5 vehicle deals for contract workers/visa and in each case the loan was not extended past the terms of the employers contract or visa expiration whichever was shorter.

The reason i was given for that was pretty much what I said: why would any bank finance a loan for someone past the terms they could stay in the US. On its face, yes the person could arrange transport to their home country, and pay those fees and taxes, but the reality is it did not work that way in real life. So the terms were till the end of either visa or contract, regardless of how long it would be and what that term did to payment.

Funnily two of them had purchased houses, or were in the process of purchasing houses at the time- although I think in both cases they used letters of credit/financial statements from their home banks.

A student has less ties to the United States then a contract worker.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

A student has less ties to the United States then a contract worker.

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I see your point. However, I have a large circle of international student friends who all got credit cards from big banks such as Chase, Amex etc.

There is no way for the banks to know when you apply otherwise they'd all be turned down.

I also doubt the statement above. A doctoral student usually spends six years in the U.S. Saying that such a person has fewer (I guess that's what you meant) ties is just speculation on your part.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

A student has less ties to the United States then a contract worker.

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I see your point. However, I have a large circle of international student friends who all got credit cards from big banks such as Chase, Amex etc.

There is no way of the banks knowing when you apply otherwise they'd all be turned down.

I also doubt the statement above. A doctoral student usually spends six years in the U.S. Saying that such a person has fewer (I guess that's what you meant) ties is just speculation on your part.

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You can doubt.

On the last page of the 'uniform Residential Loan Application',
Fannie Mae Form 1003 section VIII.
Line J. "Are you a U.S. Citizen"...yes/no
Line K. "are you a permanant resident Alien"...yes/no

from Fannie:

VIII. Declarations

Noncitizen Applicants: If an applicant indicates in his response to Question J that he is not a U.S. citizen, and also indicates in his response to Question K that he is not a permanent resident alien, the lender may wish to ask whether he is a nonpermanent resident alien or otherwise is lawfully present in the United States. Fannie Mae will purchase loans where the borrower is not a U.S. citizen provided that the borrower is lawfully present in the United States. We do not designate specific documentation that is required to establish lawful presence. Lenders should consult their counsel or other sources for information on standard documents that can be used to establish lawful presence. An Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN) alone does not establish either that the holder is lawfully present or that he is not lawfully present. Fannie Mae does not require that the borrower have a Social Security Number.

Code of Federal Regulations - Title 12: Banks and Banking

TITLE 12 - BANKS AND BANKING

CHAPTER II - FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM

SUBCHAPTER A - BOARD OF GOVERNORS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM

PART 202 - EQUAL CREDIT OPPORTUNITY ACT (REGULATION B)

202.6 - Rules concerning evaluation of applications

((((((((((((((((I AM NOW MOVING TO THE RELEVANT PART)))))))))))

  (7) Immigration status. A creditor may consider the applicant's immigration status or status as a permanent resident of the United States, and any additional information that may be necessary to ascertain the creditor's rights and remedies regarding repayment.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

From the FTC:

I. When You Apply For Credit, Creditors May Not...

Consider your race, sex, or national origin, although you may be asked to disclose this information if you want to. It helps federal agencies enforce anti-discrimination laws. A creditor may consider your immigration status and whether you have the right to stay in the country long enough to repay the debt.

 http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre15.shtm

[ibmrad7]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@vish1 wrote:

Tony: Are you just saying they rejected you since you are not a US resident out of your imagination? No bank is allowed to discriminate based on your sex, race or nationality.

Why are you so much against a secure card? The way you are going on and applying multiple cards, you will **bleep** up your credit.

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here's the letter from Wells Fargo:

...unfortunately we are unable to approve your application at this time for the following reason(s): Not a permanent US resident ....

and i called them back yesterday, they said the only cc i could apply is the secured cc.

i dont want a secured cc because if i put a deposit like 500 bucks i am afraid of passing the cl or if i put a deposit like 1500 or higher i wont have enough money to pay for my payments. i am still a student and not have a permanent job yet

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This is strange, I got my WF card when I was a student and they never asked all this to me. I am still not a US Resident and yet hold an unsecured CC from them.

[vish1]

OP: I am a bit surprised by WF decision to decline based on immigration status.

Anyway about a secured card, the point that you put about going above CL does not stand true. Unless you explicitly opt into going over your CL for a fee, you can never go above CL (your transactions will be declined). In addition to that, you can pay many times a month so as soon as you get a charge show up on your account, you can pay it.

Secured or unsecured card has nothing to do with this.

In addition to this, even if you were to get a unsecured card, I don't think any one will assign you anything more than 500 CL. Honestly, I am not sure if even capital one will give you a card at this point but you can try their pre qualifier. Even if they do, they may give you a CL of say 300 (offcourse you can turn really lucky and get a better CL)

I would still suggest that you take a low limit secured card (say 500) with a CU which has no AF and ask them to unsecure after 6 months. In this mean time, once you have your secured card for abt 3 months, you should be able to get a unsecured store card like JCP (dont try a store card issued by citi)

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

From the FTC:

I. When You Apply For Credit, Creditors May Not...

Consider your race, sex, or national origin, although you may be asked to disclose this information if you want to. It helps federal agencies enforce anti-discrimination laws. A creditor may consider your immigration status and whether you have the right to stay in the country long enough to repay the debt.

 http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre15.shtm

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What you cite in the first part refers more to mortgages / residential loans. The original poster asked about a credit card. I can see why lenders would keep a closer eye on someone's immigration status with an installment loan or the like. Would be weird if you'd pay of your debt in 2020 whilst your visa expires in 2015. With CCs, I don't think it is handled in the same strict way.

The FTC rules provide for an interesting read. Thanks for posting that. I hadn't seen that before.

It seems though that in practice that this isn't used by banks to turn down applicants, for whatever reason. The original poster had that happen to him which is the first case ever that I heard about (i.e., rejection based on immigration status). I see clearly now that banks are allowed to use that as a reason for rejection. I can only speak from experience. A few of my international student friends with F1 visas got Amex cards that grew quickly into high CLs. When I applied and received my first two credit cards, PNC and AMEX, neither was I ever asked what my immigration status was nor was I ever rejected based on it. Also, these cards grew quickly while I was still an F1 student. Now I am a permanent resident but I've never been asked to report any changes in immigration status.

It might well be possible that, say, F1 students are frequently turned down for credit products and aren't really given the real reason (other than the arbitrary reasons often listed in the rejection letter). If that were the case, it be hard to prove that banks deny credit based on immigration status. If that's the case, you might be absolutely right with what you claim. It'll be very hard to prove, though, as many banks are unlikely to be as "forthcoming" as WF in this case.

When everything's been said and done, I think the original poster still has a darn good chance of finding a CC company that will issue him/her a nice unsecured card even though he/she is an international student. Oftentimes, these people find well-paying jobs here in the U.S. and are potentially excellent customers.

P.S.: I remember that when I was a student and lived in a house where a myriad other students had lived before me, there were many letters for one Canadian guy who had returned to his home country. Based on their outward appearance, these letters sought to collect a debt. Also, we would receive numerous calls from debt collection agencies for that person. You are absolutely right that this DOES happen with students who do not have permanent ties to the U.S. They rack up debt and then leave. I personally find this irresponsible. It makes it harder for those of us who come here to be successful and make an honest living.