Citibank trended data Dis

[AndySoCal]

For those who are not familiar with trended data or want a refresher on the subject the link below will help

https://www.experian.com/blogs/insights/what-is-trended-data/ 

LLC

There is a longish backstory which I will omit. Main reason it is boring and would put you to sleep.

The field that is the subject is the actual payment amount. Citibank does not report the actual payment amount to the credit bureaus. Citibank is not the only one who does this. The actual payment amount is the field that basically tells the creditor who you are using your credit card.

Does the consumer pay in full each month or does the consumer carry a balance month over month.  If you are practicing any of the all zero except one or except 2 you are ensuring the creditor would understand you pay in full. In my case I do not do this so creditor cannot tell by looking at the credit trended data how I pay my accounts each month. 
On the other hand I have creditors like Synchronny Bank and US Bank that does report the actual payment amount,  The trended data is used as a part of the FICO 10T score and Vantage score 4.0 models. How impact the data not being reported has is unknown at this time.

The supported data submitted with the dispute to Citibank is a copy of the Citibank account , a copy of a creditor that does report the actual amount paid both notes on the trade lines. The biureaus have already marked the account in dispute no impact to my score as of yet.  I am not saying I will win but if I do not I want to see the reason why they do not change their reporting.

The letter i recieved from Citibank stated I would have an answer in 30 days.

[BrutalBodyShots]

I'm not clear on what you're disputing. The fact that a creditor doesn't report actual payment amount, something they aren't required to report in the first place? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your thesis.

I'd also add that even without payment information present, it's relatively easy to deduce whether or not one is a Transactor or Revolver simply based on the reported balances alone. If a human being can make a reasonable assumpting from looking at just that data, you can bet good money that lenders have come up with internal algorithms that can do a far better job of interpreting that data than we can.

[AndySoCal]

Part of my thesis is that just from the credit report and or the trended data how does creditor know if I pay the account in full each month? A consumer can make a payment each month to keep the account current. As far as I am concerned it is incomplete reporting.

At this point in time I am gardening until 2027 and maybe beyond.  In the future if I were making a decision for example between Citibank Double Cash and Wells Fargo Active Cash. I would most likely take the Active Cash per my understanding Wells Fargo  reports the actual payment amount,  It is only an example already have a 2% cash back card.

[BrutalBodyShots]

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@AndySoCal wrote:

As far as I am concerned it is incomplete reporting.

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Reporting isn't required in the first place - it's voluntary. The only requirement is that what is reported is accurate. Lenders can choose not to report if they'd like. There's nothing you can dispute there if they choose not to report payment amounts. If they were reporting your payment amounts as being something other than they are, that would be disputable as it would be inaccurate information.

The lender can make inferences regarding how you pay based on your reported balances. For example, if I have a $6400 reported balance on my card this month and next month I have a $2100 reported balance, it's clear that a significant payment was made. Was it in full? Not enough data to say, but it was significant. Over time, that data can be analyzied. Like I said, if a human being looking at those number can get a strong idea of payment history just by looking at those numbers across a credit report, no doubt that info is being fed into an algorithm that is doing a far superior job at it. 

I'm also unclear as to how you're bringing TD and F10T into the discussion. TD looks at the trend of reported balances over time. It doesn't need to "see" payment amounts. If the trend is flat or downward, it's not problematic for F10T. If the trajectory is upward, the algorithm takes issue and a penalty would be imposed accordingly. For people that pay in full monthly, their trend will be relatively flat over 24 months. Some months higher, some months lower, but in general no major changes. Those that pay in full monthly are most likely to receive CLIs as well, so with greater limits that trajectory in terms of utilization percentage may actually be downward as TCL increases across the same reported balances.

[AndySoCal]

This is what I consider complete reporting of credit reporting. Your example of 6400 balance to a 2100 balance yes a payment was made. The question is what does the 2100  is composed of new charges only or new charges plus a residual month over month balance. The actual payment amount month over month removes that question.

[BrutalBodyShots]

I understand what you consider "complete" reporting. The point however is that it isn't required.

Like I said earlier, yes, payment history data monthly removes ambiguity in terms of Transactor vs Revolver behavior. It isn't truly necessary though, as lenders can infer behavior with enough data input. You don't need the payment amounts like you're suggesting to get more than a good idea of what's going on.

[Thomas_Thumb]

Trending reported balance(s) is not a valid way of determing revolver/transactor payment behavior. I believe the primary focus of balance trending in Fico and VS is aggregate - not individual accounts.

As discussed, monthly payment information does not need to be reported. So, trending it is useless.

On the other hand, minimum payment due is a required reporting field. By convention CC issuers all appear to set minimum due as a whole number (or $0) if there has been no balance carryover. This can be used as an indicator of transactor behavior over time.

If a balance was carried over, there is a 99% chance minimum payment will not report as a whole $ amount when interest is applied. So, minimum due can be a very good indicator of transactor/revolver especially when evaluated over time - so long as cents are not rounded to whole $ before reporting.

[BrutalBodyShots]

@Thomas_Thumb when a lender reports to the bureaus, do they report cents or just round them off? If they report cents, do they get rounded off on credit reports? Do we know either way?

Something like a monthly loan payment... $934.26. As seen on one's credit report, $934 is shown. Is that because the lender reports $934, or do they report $934.26 and what is displayed on the credit report is rounded down to $934?

[Thomas_Thumb]

This was discussed in another thread which you participated in. A poster in that thread, it may have been the OP, stated min due included cents as part of reporting when he carried over a balance.

I have never carried a balance and can't speak to that from direct experience. My reported balances and min due amounts only show whole numbers. Never bothered to find out whether the displayed balances were reported as a whole numbers or included cents that were  truncated for display on reports. Of course, cents could be rounded to the nearest dollar for display but, truncation is simpler.

The format for balance reporting and min due is a good question. Best to pose it to someone who works or worked at one of the CRAs.

[BrutalBodyShots]

I don't carry balances either, so I don't have the ability to test.

On a fun, unrelated note @Thomas_Thumb, I decided to implement AZEO for the first time in 4+ years this month for testing purposes, as I will experience scorecard reassignment on April 1 (back to No New Revolver) so I wanted to test and see what my optimized scores were on a New Revolver scorecard. I'm 99% certain that 850 is possible on EQ8, 50% certain that it's possible on TU8 and almost certain that it is not possible on EX8 (bulletproof to AWB%). I've got 4 more accounts that will move to $0 balances in the next week, so we'll see. I was just wondering from your experience what sort of maxes you've seen on a New Revolver scorecard with an optimized profile, and if my earlier "guesses" above track.