OC vs CA Removal Date

[Jeeper44]

I had a repossession from Wells Fargo back in 2005. I never paid anything on the debt after the vehicle was repossessed so it went into charge off and collections.

Looking at my TU report, it shows the original debt with Wells Fargo with a "Due to be removed" of 08/2012. This agrees with my Equifax showing a DOFD of 08/2005.

Also on my TU is Arrow Financial which states "AFS Assignee of Wells Fargo". The balance is about $500 higher, which I assume is interest. This line shows a "Due to be removed" date of 04/2013. The Equifax shows the account as closed with a DOFD of 05/2006. I have never corresponded or had any other contact with Arrow. As this is obviously the CA for the auto loan I had with Wells Fargo, how can they show a DOFD and a removal date 8 months later than WF?

This is the only collection account left on my CR and I'm hoping to get a new mortgage in the fall after the WF is gone. Right now my USAA Fako's are in the 630 range, and my TU from Walmart is showing only 619. Hopefully in September those will jump quite a bit as I still have a current mortgage (12 years), auto loan (1+ years), HD Loan (1+ years) and the Walmart card (0% util at the moment). I also had a paid off auto loan last year which was always paid on time, as well as a Capital One card I closed after they jumped my interest rate to %29 stating I had a 30 day late, which I didn't. I probably shouldn't have closed the Cap One, just kept a 0 balance, but I wasn't happy with them. Closing it gave me a 50 point hit as it was the only revolving credit line I had. I have since gotten a GECRB card from Walmart and gotten those points back. I would try to get another card just to help my utilization but I'm really trying to keep the pulls off my record for now.

On my TU, I have a couple of paid county tax leins from a couple years ago which don't show up on the others. I also had 2 judgements both from oil companies and 6 years ago. One of the judgements is in dispute as I actually settled with the company before it went ot court, but the court was still reporting it. The last late payment I have is from 2009 with one 30 day on my mortgage. And two 30 days from 2007. Those are the only other derrogotory items left in my report. When I review my information on the USAA CM site, it shows latest derrogotory information as being six months ago, but I have to assume that's referring to the last hard pull I had as I haven't had a late payment in over 2 years, which is confirmed in my CRs.

[RobertEG]

The FCRA sets one single, uniform date-certain for the exclusion of any charge-off or collection pertaining to an account.

That date is 7 years plus 180 days from the DOFD on the OC account.  FCRA 605(c).

The DOFD itself is a date-certain that cannot be changed by later events, such as the date of reporting of a collection, later payments, DOLAs, etc.

It is based ONLY on the account history of the OC account.

The problem with CR exclusion dates for collections and charge-offs is not lack of clarity over the legal date, but rather ensuring that the actual DOFD is properly reported to the CRAs.  That is the only date the CRAs have upon which to calculate the CR exclusion date.  That is the only purpose of a DOFD.

To ensure accurate reporting of the DOFD, the FCRA sets forth specific criteria for its reporting, set forth in FCRA 623(a)(5).

Since the DOFD pertains to the OC account, those criteria are based on attempts to obtain the DOFD from the horse's mouuth...... the OC.

If the OC account has been reported and complied with their requirement to provide the DOFD to the CRA, then the debt collector has no option.  They must report the same date as that reported to the CRA.

If, for any reason, the OC has not reported to the CRA, or if reported, has not provided the required DOFD, the statute requires the debt collector to contact the OC and attempt to get the DOFD directly from them.  If the OC provides them the DOFD, they must report that date.

If, as a final step, the debt collector cannot get the DOFD, either from the prior reporting of the OC or after attempts to contact the OC, they can then make their best estimate of the DOFD, but in no case may they ever report a DOFD that is later than the date the OC referred the debt for collection.

Multiple reporting of different DOFDs means someone has reported inaccurately.  To determine who has reported inaccurately, and why, one must know the steps each took, and why the inaccurate reporting occured.  Improper reaging could have occured based on inconsisent dates provided by an OC to a debt collector.  To bring legal action for illegal reaging, it would additionally have to be shown that they knowingly reported a date other than the one prescribed under section 623(a)(5), such as reporting a date other than the one set forth in the OCs reporting, the date they received from the OC, or a date later than the OCs referral for collection.

[Jeeper44]

You have just confirmed what I thought. I guess the obvious question is the proper next step.

The CA is reporting the wrong DOLA, which I understand is agasint the FDCRA. To fix this would a dispute to the CRAs be the proper next step, or a DV to the CA? I guess the third option is wait until the OC drops in August, then if the CA still shows up, send them a certified letter demanding they drop their report or face legal action.

When you do a dispute, does the CA have to show any information to the CRA supporting their entry or do they just have to reply with a "yeah, that debt is valid"?

[RobertEG]

What is the wrong DOLA they are reporting, or did you mean DOFD?

DOLA refers to Date of Last Activity, and could be most anything.  It is rarely a significant date

If you meant that the debt collector is reporting an incorrect DOFD, then you would NOT use the DV process to address that.  The DV process pertains to obtaining debt validation, not to correcting inaccurate credit reporting.  You use the FCRA dispute processes to address inaccuracies in credit reporting.

I would send a dispute to the CRA, identifying the inaccurate information as being the Date of First Delinquency/FCRA Compliance Date.  Provide documentation to support your assertion that the reported date is inaccurate.  The CRA will then investigate the inaccuracy, which involves sending a copy of dispute to the debt collector, and requesting them to investigate its accuracy and report back to the CRA.  That all goes on behind the scenes, and the CRA will then  make a decision and report the results to you.  I suggest disputing through the CRA rather than filing a direct dispute because the CRA has a record of what the debt collector reported in their files, and is in a postion to make any necessary comparisons on their own.  THe CRA has its own reinvestigation rights.

I am not sure what you mean by “the OC drops in August?” 

I would not communicate with the debt collector at this point until your dispute has been resolved by the CRA.  If they verify the accuracy of the reported DOFD, then the CRA will continue to include the collection in your CR up to 7 years plus 180 days from that date.

The CRA does not compel the debt collector to provide documentary evidence to support their verification.  They take it on faith that the party has conducted a reasonable investigation and accurately reported the results (yeah or nay) back to them.

In order to get documentary information, you would have to bring civil action against the debt collector, and prove illegal reaging before the court.

[Jeeper44]

I meant DOFD and not DOLA.

The OC is Wells Fargo and shows a DOFD of 8/2005 and TU states its to be removed from the CR in 07/2012

The CA is Arrow Financial Services shows a DOFD of 05/2006 and TU states to be removed in 04/2013

They are the same loan and I have never done anything with AFS, so their DOFD is 8 months later than the original debt. TU is the only one showing the AFS line, Experian and Equifax only show the original Wells Fargo loan as a charge off and repossession. One tidbit I didn't mention in my original post because I doubt its relavant is that at the end of January I got a 1099-C from Arrow Financial showing the debt was cancelled as of 12/15/11 for the full amount owed.

[llecs]

OP, I'd make the argument they are misreporting. IMO, I think it's OK to have DOFD and drop off dates vary slightly because of the 180-days the FCRA throws in there, but your DOFD differences vary by 10 months.

If I had that, I'd review my own history and records just to make sure the OC wasn't mis-reporting in your favor. If they were reporting accurately, then I'd dispute via mail citing both accounts saying the CA is misreporting the DOFD causing it to report longer than it is supposed to. And if you had proof from the OC for the DOFD, I'd include that too.

ETA....if the CA is misreporting, they aren't violating the FDCPA, IMHO, but are violating the FCRA.

[RobertEG]

If you have any evidence of what the OC has reported or considered to be the DOFD, that is end-game.  It is not just a throw-in.

The entire structure of section 623(a)(5), which are the requirements for reporting of DOFD, are based on one fact.

The DOFD occured under the OC, and thus the OC is THE recognized and definitive source for establishing DOFD. If they are of record with a statement of a DOFD on their account, the debt collector is required to report that same date. Period.

If the OC has reported a DOFD, it is illegal for a debt collector to report any other date.  FCRA 623(a)(5)(b)(i).

If the OC has provided a stated DOFD, regardless of whether they have ever reported it to a CRA, the debt collector MUST report that date to the CRA, and no other.

FCRA 623(a)(5)(B)(ii).

The only time a debt collector has any lattitude in reporting a DOFD is if the OC has not provided one, and if they have also contacted the OC and were unable to get that date from them.  FCRA 623(a)(5)(B)(iii).