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practical value of a huge credit limit?

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: practical value of a huge credit limit?


@Anonymous wrote:

If I ever get a credit line with a monster limit, I'll be more than happy to test this out Smiley Happy

 


As you can probably guess, I will likely never have one.  I was hoping I'd hear about some cool use for one, and then I'd pursue it, but I think that, to summarize that aspect of this thread: there isn't any such cool use. 

 

As I mentioned there used to be an AMAZINGLY cool use for a true monster CL as little as a year ago.  You could open a savings or checking account with Citibank and fund it with a credit card.  If you used a 2% back card you could get $2000 back for every account you opened and funded (assuming a CL of 100k.)  Citi had no limit on CC funding of deposit accounts!  Those halcyon days are no more, sadly.


Apparently buying cars on credit cards is not a real possibility either.

 

I am interested in learning where the breakpoint is for FICO dropping big revolving lines from util.  My memory is that I started getting way bigger initial CLs with new cards once I raised my highest CL from 15k to 24k.  I have about a trillion times more total CL than I need, but since some models (e.g. LexisNexis and Vantage) care about average credit limit, then I'd like to see if I can keep my ACL above 15k.  It's about the only issue I can think of.

Message 81 of 190
CreditDunce
Valued Contributor

Re: practical value of a huge credit limit?

In the old FICO models the cutoff was 30k for TU and 50k for EQ & EX.   I don't remember if the FICO model was 98 or 04.  This is per several of Revike's threads.  He said the cutoff was for HELOC and other revolvers.

 

A few years ago there was one thread about the cutoff for FICO 08.   I seem to remember they were saying the new cutoff was in the 35-45k range.  Sorry, I don't remember any of the details. 

 

As far as uses for a monster credit limit, on the shallow side, jewelry and vacations.  On the a more practical side, tuition and home remodeling.  A 2%-5% discount on large purchases really adds up if you can PIF.

Message 82 of 190
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: practical value of a huge credit limit?

Thanks, CD!  If you find a thread with clear test data, let me know.  I'm not obsessed with when the cutoff might be, but I think it is interesting.  Fascinating to hear that one of the guesses I threw out was correct -- that in some models you can have different cutoffs depending on the CRA.

 

I hadn't though about jewelry -- completely off my own radar.  I know enough to realize it can be expensive if one is wealthy enough.  The average cost of an engagement ring in 2015 was $4758.  Make that 5k and then triple it to get a really high end ring.  That's still only 15k, not enough to need a 30k CL for. 

 

In the case of vacations, I can imagine a single vacation where all the different expenses add up to 30k or more.  (Though the terror I'd feel feel for the future of my bank account would personally offset the fun of the trip.)  Even still my guess is that the expenses would be smartest and most natural to put on different cards, due to their rewards structure.  One card might be great for airfare, another for restaurants, another for hotels, another for the 5k of minimum spend you need to get a huge signup bonus, etc. (Also the purchases would be typically spread out over time: airfare or the upfront cost of the cruise might be charged months in advance., for example.)

 

Tuition makes a huge amount of sense but looking at Harvard's tuition prepayment plan one still pays only 22k per semester... not enough to need more than a 30k CL for a single transaction.

 

I realize that eventually you can have billionaires who might drop 20k on a bottle of wine or charter a plane for 50k or buy a 2 million dollar ring (or whatever), but I excluded those from consideration in my first post.  I am imagining a person who is really well off (200k income maybe?) -- what situation might he gain a real benefit from having the card with the big CL?

 

Again, not trying to shoot down anybody's ideas, just trying to mentally test drive them and see if the big card would really in practice be a big help.

Message 83 of 190
iced
Valued Contributor

Re: practical value of a huge credit limit?


@Anonymous wrote:

Our friend Brutal Body Shots reminded us on another thread that when the individual credit limit on a revolving account gets high enough it can cause the entire account to be dropped from utilization -- which in turn could lead to a significant change in your CC utilization  Thus, for example, the following is conceivable:

 

*  Bob has had an Amex credit card with a 14k Credit limit for a long time, which typically reports a couple hundred dollars.

*  He applies for a new card and gets a 5k limit. 

*  He then makes a softpull CLI request to triple his limit.  His CL is now 42k

*  A few days later, he puts a 3k purchase on the new card.

*  Bob's CC utilization has gone from 1% ($140/$14000) to 60% ($3000/$5000)

 

That reminded me of the question I ask at the top of this post.  I had been wondering about that for a while.  Namely....

 

Is there any practical advantage from trying to raise the credit limit of any particular card past (say) 29k?

 

Assume that we are not talking about a consumer who needs the card for huge monthly business expenses, or a person who engages in MS (Manufactured Spending), or someone who is outrageously wealthy and might easily drop 30k on a pleasure trip to the Bahamas.  Just a regular guy with an income of under 200k.

 

One use that does occur to me would be if auto dealers are typically ok with you using a credit card to buy a car.  If so, then have a Citi Double Cash with a 60k limit would be nice.  You could buy a 50k car and get $1000 back tax-free (assuming you paid it off the following month).

 

Do auto dealers let you do that?  Can anyone think of any other practical use for a single CL that is absurdly high?

 

My feeling is that once you start getting close to having a single tradeline with a CL over 29k, by that time you almost certainly have at least 4-5 credit cards of different rewards types.  And once you do, it means you are already using one card for groceries, another for gas, a third for restaurants, a fourth for airfare and hotels, etc.  Aside from that example I gave about buying a car, I am having trouble imagining the use for a single tradeline that is particularly big.

 

Curious to hear if anyone else has ideas.


The danger in the line of thinking here is that a higher credit limit necessitates larger purchases, and that's just simply not always the case. I like the security, reward, and convenience of being able to put all purchases on cards then paying the statement balance each month. This means I want a credit limit sufficient to cover any expense or combination of expenses up to my spending ability (sum of my checking and traditional savings balances). It does not mean I plan to or have a desire to spend that amount in a month, let alone on a single purchase.

 

I don't like having a lot of cards, so I only keep 3 cards: two Visas for 99% of my purchases and a MC for the occasional gas purchase or when Visa isn't accepted. Both Visas have a CL of 50k. In the last 3 years, I have only made one purchase of $10,000 or higher, and I have made around 5 purchases of $3,000-$7,000 each. Because I have sufficient limits, in none of these cases did I have to write a check, put a purchase on a non-preferred card, or split a purchase across multiple cards. I was also able to make such a purchase one day then continue with my regular purchases the next day without worrying about hitting a limit or making more than my usual monthly statement balance payment. For me, that is the practical value for such limits - I don't have to change my routine, even when the non-routine occurs.

 

Message 84 of 190
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: practical value of a huge credit limit?

CGID,

 

I agree with your response above regarding pricey spends on jewelry, tuition, vacations, etc.  I think one thing to consider though is from the POV of a Revolver.  You and I are clearly Transactors, so running a line of credit up to 50%+ in a cycle is no big deal as if we were to do so it would be PIF anyway.  The chances of us doing this with a big credit line, of course, are slim though.  With some of the purchases referenced above, these people may be running up 50% of their credit line and carrying that for several cycles, perhaps even a year or longer.  While this certainly isn't practical from the POV of someone like you or I, it would make having a huge credit limit practical from a utilization standpoint for an individual such as this.

Message 85 of 190
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: practical value of a huge credit limit?


@Anonymous wrote:

CGID,

 

I agree with your response above regarding pricey spends on jewelry, tuition, vacations, etc.  I think one thing to consider though is from the POV of a Revolver.  You and I are clearly Transactors, so running a line of credit up to 50%+ in a cycle is no big deal as if we were to do so it would be PIF anyway.  The chances of us doing this with a big credit line, of course, are slim though.  With some of the purchases referenced above, these people may be running up 50% of their credit line and carrying that for several cycles, perhaps even a year or longer.  While this certainly isn't practical from the POV of someone like you or I, it would make having a huge credit limit practical from a utilization standpoint for an individual such as this.



Hey BBS!  That was a really helpful insight.  Definitely a light bulb went off in my head.  Of course.  People often charge a huge purchase and then pay it down over time, perhaps six months or even a year.  Duh.  Furthermore, the big purchases might take them substantially over 50% on a particular card's limit, in which case having a high limit on that card would be especially important.

 

I am still guessing that, even for people for whom that is their spending/payment style, the mega-limit is only crucial when we add other constraints.  Basically the megalimit (e.g. 50k) is an advantage over (say) 30k when:

 

(1)  There will be a MASSIVE uptick in spending on some month (the 15k ring, the 30k vacation, etc.)

(2)  The person plans to pay it off very slowly (many months)

(3)  The person has decided (for personal reasons) to have only a few cards (e.g. 2 or 3)

(4)  The person's income is high enough that a credit card company will be happy to grant him a card with an individual limit well over 30k

 

You need all four of those going, in order for it to be an advantage to want a megalimit.  I highlighted #3 especially.  Basically you want the huge purchase to not hurt your score for the next year.  But if you have several cards, which most revolvers do, then you'll likely have a total CL that is really high.  I haven't calculated my own total CL lately, but I think it may be 150k, and my highest CL is maybe 25k (?).  Thus that huge purchase should not affect most revolvers; their total util doesn't go up that much.

 

But if a person has made a decision to have only 2-3 cards, then he needs every available dollar on each card.  It's seen most easily with a guy who has one and only one card, right?  For him there is a big difference between having a 30k card and a 50k card.  The 30k vacation will knock his FICO score into a hole for months, whereas it will have much less effect if he had a 50k card.

 

Message 86 of 190
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: practical value of a huge credit limit?


@iced wrote:


The danger in the line of thinking here is that a higher credit limit necessitates larger purchases, and that's just simply not always the case. I like the security, reward, and convenience of being able to put all purchases on cards then paying the statement balance each month. This means I want a credit limit sufficient to cover any expense or combination of expenses up to my spending ability (sum of my checking and traditional savings balances). It does not mean I plan to or have a desire to spend that amount in a month, let alone on a single purchase.

 

I don't like having a lot of cards, so I only keep 3 cards: two Visas for 99% of my purchases and a MC for the occasional gas purchase or when Visa isn't accepted. Both Visas have a CL of 50k. In the last 3 years, I have only made one purchase of $10,000 or higher, and I have made around 5 purchases of $3,000-$7,000 each. Because I have sufficient limits, in none of these cases did I have to write a check, put a purchase on a non-preferred card, or split a purchase across multiple cards. I was also able to make such a purchase one day then continue with my regular purchases the next day without worrying about hitting a limit or making more than my usual monthly statement balance payment. For me, that is the practical value for such limits - I don't have to change my routine, even when the non-routine occurs.

 


Hello  Iced!  Thanks so much for that very thoughtful reply.  It was really great.

 

Do you mind me asking, what's the most you have ever spent on credit cards during a 60-day period?

 

Given that you pay in full each month, I can see a real advantage of a megalimit card (50k) over just a big CL card (25k say), if it has ever happened that you have spent 25k in two months on a single card.  But based on the amounts you list,  It's quite possible that you have never even gotten close to spending 25k on all three cards together (let alone one card) during any 60-day period.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am totally not telling anyone who happens to have cards with huge limits that this is a bad idea!  It's fine, of course.  But I am just trying to wrap my head around whether there could a substantial advantage to having such cards.(over cards in the 25-30k range, say).

 

By the way, I am elated to hear that you have two 50k CL credit cards.  Let me know whether you might be willing to perform a FICO 8 test for us to determine whether the 50k cards are included in your total credit limit (and therefore in your CC utilization).  Most credit scoring tools (Karma, myFICO, Credit Check Total) will say that they are, but that doesn't mean anything.  There's a pretty painless test you could do to tell.whether FICO's scoring algorithm is dropping either or both of those CLs from your total limit).

Message 87 of 190
iced
Valued Contributor

Re: practical value of a huge credit limit?


@Anonymous wrote:

Hello  Iced!  Thanks so much for that very thoughtful reply.  It was really great.

 

Do you mind me asking, what's the most you have ever spent on credit cards during a 60-day period?

 

Given that you pay in full each month, I can see a real advantage of a megalimit card (50k) over just a big CL card (25k say), if it has ever happened that you have spent 25k in two months on a single card.  But based on the amounts you list,  It's quite possible that you have never even gotten close to spending 25k on all three cards together (let alone one card) during any 60-day period.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am totally not telling anyone who happens to have cards with huge limits that this is a bad idea!  It's fine, of course.  But I am just trying to wrap my head around whether there could a substantial advantage to having such cards.(over cards in the 25-30k range, say).

 

By the way, I am elated to hear that you have two 50k CL credit cards.  Let me know whether you might be willing to perform a FICO 8 test for us to determine whether the 50k cards are included in your total credit limit (and therefore in your CC utilization).  Most credit scoring tools (Karma, myFICO, Credit Check Total) will say that they are, but that doesn't mean anything.  There's a pretty painless test you could do to tell.whether FICO's scoring algorithm is dropping either or both of those CLs from your total limit).


 Over a 60 day period I would say my peak was about $28,000. That included a $20,000 engagement ring (in 2015 no less, made your averages above all the more interesting). I have never approached the 50k limits nor do I ever hope to. But, as I have reserves that could cover it, I like having it available in case the day ever comes where I do need to have such a 60-day period.

 

 

The above period happened when my card had a 30k limit, and it was broken across 2 statements since it was a 60-day. I made a statement payment with an amount extra to drive the reporting balance down to around 40%, but it still hurt my score the next month. I couldn't say if it would happen again now that I upped the limits to a point where they supposedly don't factor.

 

What sort of test do you have in mind?

Message 88 of 190
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: practical value of a huge credit limit?


@iced wrote:

 

What sort of test do you have in mind?


Basically, if a person has multiple cards, with one of them being at 50k (say)....

     * He keeps all cards reporting $0, except for the 50k card and a smaller card (e.g. 20k).

     * He gets each of those two cards reporting a small balance ($100 say), waiting until he's sure the CRA reports are updated.

     * He pulls his three FICO 8 scores (e.g. with Credit Check Total).

     * He pays the 20k card down to $0 leaving just the 50k card reporting. 

     * He waits till he is sure the new balances are reporting (all zero except the 50k card),

     * Then he pulls his three FICO 8 scores again.

 

If we see a big score drop (and also see the No recent revolving balances reason code) then it means that a 50k CL card is being dropped by FICO from its utilization calculation.  The score drop would mean that FICO thinks your utilization has gone to 0.0000%

 

The two pulls of your FICO 8 scores can be done for $1 each with Credit Check Total.


Let me know what you think!

Message 89 of 190
iced
Valued Contributor

Re: practical value of a huge credit limit?

I can certainly do this, but have two caveats to note:

 

1. I can currently pull FICO8 scores through Citi and Barclays, which only covers 2 of the 3 bureaus for free. I can do an Equifax FICO5 via DCU but it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. It saves me $60 on an experiment and, as Meatloaf said, two out of three aint bad.

2. My reports have been dominated by the same two reason codes for the last several years: "serious delinquincy" and "number of accounts with delinquincy." I'm not sure that no recent revolving balances will be strong enough to trump those two baddies for my reasons.

 

Other than that, I can let you know if I see a larger-than-normal swing on my scores. Ping me in February.

Message 90 of 190
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