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Lower DTI, or save down payment?

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Lower DTI, or save down payment?

Good mornings folks,

 

Have been waiting a long time to buy a house - ever since we lost the last one in ch7 back in 2007.  We are finally getting ready to apply for a loan around September.  Credit Karma reports EQ/TU score both at 700 but I have not looked at "real" scores yet.  I have an experian account and I know that score is 683.

 

I have one last credit card to pay off (will be done first week in April) and then I am free of those.  I can do 2 things - either pay off my car (about a 600/mo payment, so this would significantly lower DTI) or save that money for down/closing.  One thing I should say is this car will be paid off in April 2021 anyway so I don't know how huge of a help paying it off early would be.  Saving until it's scheduled to be paid off in 2021 isn't really an option as my current lease is up in Dec 2020.  I don't know if I can just tell them there's only a few months left on it when I apply, since I have pretty much zero experience?  Would they even take that into account?

 

I have nothing saved right now as all extra has gone to tackling debt.  If I pay the car, I think I can manage to swing 3-6k on the side also for closing.  Which is not much but I also know there are loans out there with nothing down, or that a seller can help with closing costs.  If I don't pay off the car and solely save the money, we can probably make it to 9-12k.

 

We are looking to spend in the 200-250k range.  Any opinions on the best option going forward?

I guess pushing back to Nov-Dec would give us a little more time to save too.  We have a big IRS debt (but have been faithfully making payments for years) so I am worried that even with a nice DTI and fair score they're going to be very hesitant and things will be pushed back with us as they ask for more and more documentation.  We owed 22k for 2015.  We did not originally file in 2017/18 but that has now been taken care of along with 2019.  We will be adding about 28k to the debt and working out a new plan right now.  So about a 50k tax debt total.

 

  Will they take our years of payment history into account, or since it's effectively going to turn into a new payment plan, will they just look at it as new?  Despite not filing those 2 years, we've been ignored by the IRS and have no liens or judgements.  Fortunately we should not be owing any more money in the future and it won't get worse than this.  These were years of self employment, but now we have an employer and taxes are pulled.  2019 saw a small refund (1700) that will be immediately absorbed by the debt, haha.

11 REPLIES 11
CreditInspired
Super Contributor

Re: Lower DTI, or save down payment?

Hi and welcome to myFICO

 

First, kudos to you for all your hard work getting back on track. 


Now, I'm going to tackle the other stuff because you have quite a bit of stuff going on. 

1.  Trash the CK scores. You need your FICO scores to know where you stand. Go to www.creditchecktotal.com and get a 7-day trial for $1. Cancel by 7th day so there's no auto $29.99 renewal. 

2.  You will want to know your mortgage scores at some point because those are usually lower. If it's just you applying for the mortgage, it's your middle score. If it's also spouse, it the lowest middle score. Example: say your scores are 645, 700, 620 and spouse scores are 625, 697, 638. The mortgage score used would be 638. 

3. Since you already have an IRS installment agreement in place, that's a good thing. However, increasing the amount due another $28K no doubt will throw your monthly payment out of whack. What is the monthly payment now? What will the new monthly payment be? 

4. What is total income that will be used? This is VIP. 

 

5. What is total monthly debt to include IRS payment, CC payments, personal loans, student loans, any alimony, any child support, etc. This is VIP!

 

6.  A paid off carnote within 4 mos of closing date is like a doube-edge sword.  Payoff can cause a drop in scores. However, if not paid off but only 3-4 payments left--a LO could choose not to include in DTI. 

 

7.  You have to have some monies upfront for out-of-pocket costs:

*A minimum of $1K for an earnest money deposit when putting a contract on a house. 
*$300-400 appraisal fee

*$250-350 home inspection fee


8. If your area is in a buyer's market, Sellers usually will contribute up to 6% of sales pric for closing cost. However, if you're in a seller's market, this is not the case. 

9. If you're going FHA, downpayment is 3.5%. VA is 0%. If scores are 760+, 0% downpayment is a possibility from CU. You also should look at grants or even USDA mortgages. 

So, lots of work and planning going forward. But, being a homeowner is worth it. GL2U


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Message 2 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Lower DTI, or save down payment?

Don't pay off the car loan.

 

Why?

Because that would allow you to get more of a house, and a higher payment.

 

If you can make mortgage payments with current said auto loan,

then it would be very grateful when april 2021 comes, and you free up $600/mo

More than likely you will be waiting for the day.

 

But, if you pay it off now, you have less for down payment now, less for savings now,

less for emergency funds now and when those times come.

 

Good luck in the purchase and hope you find what you are looking for and need.

Message 3 of 12
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Lower DTI, or save down payment?

A DTI calculation isn't hard, just need to know your income and your debts.  In your case existing debts are all the minimum payments which you can get off Credit Karma and your IRS payment plan monthly amount, and then add that to the PITI which you can get off any mortgage calculator on the net, and divide that through by gross monthly income and that's the almighty backend (housing included) ratio which is what the lenders are really looking at.  If that's below the threshold, don't pay off the car, if it's not... then it's worth having that conversation as there might be cheaper ways to reduce that number.

 

Regarding the IRS you'd need to have the new payment plan in hand, AFAIK current rules are you only need to have made one payment before closing (according to the first hit on Google, which is more friendly than what I recall but I would do a more detailed check if it were me).

 

I will say though that while there are financially stategic reasons to owe the IRS money, having a semi-recent 28K shortfall and then trying to tack a mortgage on top of it, I'd look really hard at my finances.

 




        
Message 4 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Lower DTI, or save down payment?

Gotcha.  I will try to find out mortgage scores, but our actual FICO scores turn out to be Ex683 TU690 and EQ671

 

As for the IRS debt, our monthly payment currently is 390.  I expect we will be paying around 800 a month but our new plan is not set in place yet, we have only just filed all 3 years on Friday.  Also in regards to the IRS, I know what it looks like - bad, lol.  Our situation was we leased a semi from a "friend" and thus became owner-operators.  The truck broke down constantly due to regen issues.  The worst break down cost us 30k in repairs, as well as 3 weeks of not working/no income while it was down.   This destroyed our credit, we were constantly trying to stay caught up - nevermind saving - and then whenever we did get a tiny bit ahead there was other maintenance - new tires, insurance, plates, etc.  But the REAL kicker here is the 1099's from the "friend".  Saying we made 260k in 2017.  Our write offs took us down to 160k.  Our deposits??  70k.  Did not even get paystubs.  It's very frustrating and I am glad we are out of that situation, as I fully believe quite a lot of money was taken from us that we still paid tax on.  In Jan 2019 our Eq score was 544, so our lives (and scores!) have improved vastly since walking away from that owner-operator mess.  AND we have health insurance!  AND taxes pulled.

 

So, we were in a very bad place but no longer are, and our tax situation should NEVER be like this again.  We were stupid to allow it to happen, I can't deny that.  Whether this makes a difference in our chances, I do not know.  But I hope not.  Home ownership is literally all we want out of life Smiley Tongue  We've been trying hard to turn around and have been waiting a long time to be in the right place.

 

Total income:  made 113k in 2019 and expect to continue making the same

DTI:  Credit Karma says 1767 monthly debt.  Add in the current 390 IRS bill for 2157.  Monthly income is around 8k, so that puts us at 27%.  Of course, there is still the credit card I mentioned that will be paid off in April, and paying the car off 600/mo would make a huge difference here.  However, most responses so far have recommended not paying off the car so I probably won't do that now.  Would be nice if a LO indeed left it out with its payoff date approaching next year.

 

Most of our monthly debt is in car payments at this point.  In addition to the 600/mo, we also have a 450, 300, and 177.

If our IRS payment plan does go up to 800 that looks to be around 32% DTI.  No student loans, child support, alimony, etc.

Message 5 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Lower DTI, or save down payment?

Also I am sorry to double post but last time I edited my post it sent it off to spamland!

 

I would just like to add that I don't know what I'm doing and may have calculated DTI wrong, as I didn't include the cost of any potential house.  Not sure if I should have but when I did a mortgage calculator on NerdWallet it put us at 38% including a 200k mortgage with 5k down.  A bit high and that is only with the current IRS payment.

 

When I took 600 off of that, it put us down to 30.5%

When I put it at 1900 debt per mo (without car, but with an 800 tax payment) we are at 35.5%

 

We can also go for a cheaper house, we just pulled the 200-250 numbers out because we saw 2 at exactly those prices - 200 and 250 - that we really liked.  I have also seen plenty I liked around 180k too, though!

Message 6 of 12
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: Lower DTI, or save down payment?

- All minimum payments listed on credit cards and other revolvers on credit report.

- The auto loan

- any other installment monthly payments.

- The IRS debt payment

- Any other debts not on the credit report but fortunately this is pretty rare these days other than business cards.

 

Then add the PITI (payment interest taxes insurance) that you got from that calculator.  If that is coming up less than 43% you're good.

 
There are some loan products which can go higher but I would shoot for 43% personally.  Also one note you will likely need more than 5K down on 200k (or did you mean 5%?), and there are closing costs to consider too.

 

I am buying a 325k place at 5% down with no stupid lender fees or points and I'm at like 23.5k total.  That can get cheaper, for example buying existing property is probably cheaper than new construction, but it's good to have cash as mortgages are expensive to get, long term absolutely the right call financially though.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is if you can get under 43% saving money is the right path; even 50% maybe but that restricts your loan options and long term it's less of a cushion if life goes sideways financially.




        
Message 7 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Lower DTI, or save down payment?

Got it!  I will get back to you on that later today.  I work very early mornings.  I also used our net monthly income and I believe after reading more I should have used gross?

 

I definitely know about life going sideways.  I will save up instead of paying the car.  If the LO were to say we need to pay down more to make it happen, then I would have the money already there to do so, so that would be win-win.  I did put 5k in the calculator because I wasn't sure what else to put, and I was looking for worst-case scenario, I guess.  But if I am not going to pay off the car, I believe I can easily save 9-12k by then.  Perhaps still not enough, but I have heard of people buying with nothing down at all so I hope it would at least give us a shot!

Message 8 of 12
donkort
Valued Contributor

Re: Lower DTI, or save down payment?

You use gross monthly income.  

"Back-end" DTI, as previously stated, adds your future potential monthly mortgage payment, plus monthly taxes, plus PMI to your "front-end" DTI.

FICO 8: EQ 810; TU 816; EX 822 as of 7/5/2022
Message 9 of 12
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Lower DTI, or save down payment?

Just popping in to say I have found another calculator.

 

Monthly gross income:9000
Spouse's monthly income after taxes:1200
Other monthly income:0
Front End Ratio Inputs
Rent or mortgage:1500
2nd mortgage:0
home insurance:100
HOA fees:100
Back End Ratio Inputs
Vehicle payments:950
Credit union loan payments:0
Student loan payments:0
Minimum credit card payments (Visa, Mastercard, dept. store, etc.):150
Other monthly payments:800
Pending loan payments:0
 
Your total income:$10,200.00
Your housing costs:$1,700.00
Frontend debt ratio:16.67%
Your total monthly payments:$3,600.00
Backend debt ratio:35.29%

 

Here are a few notes:

 

1.  I have undershot a tiny bit on the monthly income, as 113k divided by 12 is actually 9400.  This is so small it probably doesn't matter but it is there.

2.  I have read that if an installment loan has fewer than 10 payments left, then it's usually not included in DTI.  I don't know if this is true or not, but since it benefits me and I am curious, I went ahead and left out the 600/mo car payment due to be paid off in April 2021.  If this is not true, then this changes things but I think we could still squeeze through?

3.  I am inexperienced and haven't bought a house since I was 21 back in 2005.  I didn't even know what was going on back then, so I have no clue what to expect for home insurance and HOA costs, I just left the suggested numbers of 100 in those spots.  Similarly, I don't know what to expect a monthly mortgage to be at this point, so I just put 1500.

4.  Note the included 800/mo tax debt.  I haven't heard back yet about our new payment plan (I've hired a professional to handle this) so this is my best guess at what I anticipate our monthly payments to be based on our previous payment plan and the amount owed.  I hope this would be worse-case scenario and we actually end up with a smaller payment every month.  But for now I don't know.

5.  Lastly I am a little confused on the main income being "Gross" and the spouse's income being "after taxes".  I put in what it asked for.

 

 

So, I guess this looks okay for us if this is anywhere close to an accurate calculator.  I am just worried when they see the total amount owed to the IRS they will be like, "wait, what?"  

Again the FICO scores turned out to be Ex683 TU690 and EQ671

Message 10 of 12
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