Help with paying off Credit/Short term Credit score boost

[jamaster14]

Hi.  I've been chipping away at credit card debt after some unexpected medical debt and my spouse being laid off a bit put us in a big hole.  With my annual bonus, some side work and DW hustling with gig work was able to get it back to where i can cover all my monthly payments/minimums.

I'm looking to try and pay these down.  I have an extra 150-200 per month for now to add on top of minimums.  I'd love to apply for a 21-month no interest card like wells fargo reflect but i worry with my current score (705 FICO8) that ill probably get rejected for it and i dont want any inqueries that dont result in more credit.

I've tried all the softpull/pre-approvals but no luck.  So in addition to paying down im looking for short term score manipulation.  

1)  does having a lower individual card utilization matter, if so how much roughly?  For example my Wells Fargo card has 0 Balance and a $22000 limit.  My CapOne Venture has a 9480 balance and 10,200 limit.  would transfering the balance to my WF card be worth while?  that would take the utiliation on that balance from 9%$ of my Capital one card to being under 50% on my WF.

2) My credit union can probably get me 15k-25k personal loan at 8.99 - 12.99%.  i could that and pay down some credit balances.  what would an installment loan do to my credit score vs. having that balance be on my credit card.  obviously id be paying less interest, which is great because im really taking it in the rear there.

-no negative/derrogatory/late/baddies
-oldest credit line is 22 years

-4 new accounts last 2 years (9 months, 1 year, 1 year 5 months, 1 year 9 months)

-2 inqueries (4/2024, 12/2023)

Account	Balance	Limit	Ratio	APR
Prosper	$0.00	$1,000.00	0.0%	23.49%
Savor	$705.00	$1,300.00	54.2%	29.24%
Venture One	$0.00	$1,000.00	0.0%	27.15%
Paypal World Mastercard	$0.00	$6,500.00	0.0%	28.49%
Venture	$9,483.00	$10,200.00	93.0%	22.24%
Paypal	$0.00	$10,000.00	0.0%	29.24%
Amazon	$8,032.00	$10,000.00	80.3%	29.99%
Discover	$6,500.00	$10,500.00	61.9%	21.24%
QuickSilver	$127.00	$5,000.00	2.5%	27.15%
Evergreen	$1,056.00	$2,450.00	43.1%	23.74%
CareCredit	$0.00	$6,000.00	0.0%	29.99%
Wells Fargo	$0.00	$22,000.00	0.0%	24.24%
Amex	$0.00	$24,000.00	0.0%	28.24%
BoA	$28,231.00	$30,000.00	94.1%	25.49%
Citi	$27,138.00	$28,040.00	96.8%	26.24%
Total	$81,272.00	$167,990.00	48.4%	26.41%

[JoeRockhead]

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@jamaster14 wrote:

Hi.  I've been chipping away at credit card debt after some unexpected medical debt and my spouse being laid off a bit put us in a big hole.  With my annual bonus, some side work and DW hustling with gig work was able to get it back to where i can cover all my monthly payments/minimums.

I'm looking to try and pay these down.  I have an extra 150-200 per month for now to add on top of minimums.  I'd love to apply for a 21-month no interest card like wells fargo reflect but i worry with my current score (705 FICO8) that ill probably get rejected for it and i dont want any inqueries that dont result in more credit.

I've tried all the softpull/pre-approvals but no luck.  So in addition to paying down im looking for short term score manipulation.  

1)  does having a lower individual card utilization matter, if so how much roughly?  For example my Wells Fargo card has 0 Balance and a $22000 limit.  My CapOne Venture has a 9480 balance and 10,200 limit.  would transfering the balance to my WF card be worth while?  that would take the utiliation on that balance from 9%$ of my Capital one card to being under 50% on my WF.

2) My credit union can probably get me 15k-25k personal loan at 8.99 - 12.99%.  i could that and pay down some credit balances.  what would an installment loan do to my credit score vs. having that balance be on my credit card.  obviously id be paying less interest, which is great because im really taking it in the rear there.

-no negative/derrogatory/late/baddies
-oldest credit line is 22 years

-4 new accounts last 2 years (9 months, 1 year, 1 year 5 months, 1 year 9 months)

-2 inqueries (4/2024, 12/2023)

Account	Balance	Limit	Ratio	APR
Prosper	$0.00	$1,000.00	0.0%	23.49%
Savor	$705.00	$1,300.00	54.2%	29.24%
Venture One	$0.00	$1,000.00	0.0%	27.15%
Paypal World Mastercard	$0.00	$6,500.00	0.0%	28.49%
Venture	$9,483.00	$10,200.00	93.0%	22.24%
Paypal	$0.00	$10,000.00	0.0%	29.24%
Amazon	$8,032.00	$10,000.00	80.3%	29.99%
Discover	$6,500.00	$10,500.00	61.9%	21.24%
QuickSilver	$127.00	$5,000.00	2.5%	27.15%
Evergreen	$1,056.00	$2,450.00	43.1%	23.74%
CareCredit	$0.00	$6,000.00	0.0%	29.99%
Wells Fargo	$0.00	$22,000.00	0.0%	24.24%
Amex	$0.00	$24,000.00	0.0%	28.24%
BoA	$28,231.00	$30,000.00	94.1%	25.49%
Citi	$27,138.00	$28,040.00	96.8%	26.24%
Total	$81,272.00	$167,990.00	48.4%	26.41%

---

Your score isn't the problem, it's your utilization that's going to trigger denials and possibly balance chasing on your active accounts. Anything over 89% is considered maxed out, and is considered a red flag to any lender looking at your reports (including your current lenders). I'd start by reducing those balances first then work from there.

Edited:

Fico does weigh highest individual card utilization in addition to aggregate util across all cards for scoring. Anything above 29% individual usage and 9% aggregate is where scores start to go down. Transferring some of your higher balances to another card isn't a bad idea but only if it can help get your maxed out cards out of the red zone. If you can get your maxed out cards to below 89% util then you can start working from there. There are other score penalties for having too many accounts with balances but those should be far less of a concern than the maxed out status you have with a few cards for now. 

I'll respectfully disagree with the poster below who suggests lenders want to see your back against the wall. Lenders are primarily looking for two things, good scores which indicate you're good at managing debt (paying your obligations on time, which you're doing already), and good DTI%. In fact, the lower your DTI, the better your chances for additional approvals are when combined with good scores. 

As for being penalized in some significant way for having too many credit cards and not enough loans to satisfy credit mix, this is false. You might have loans, paid and closed, or open (you didn't mention any loans). Either way, Credit mix is only 10% of your score and there are many DPs that prove you don't have to have any open loans to achieve 800+ scores. As to whether or not you should get a personal loan to help with all this again comes down to scores, DTI, and are you going to be able to get approved for a loan amount big enough to make a real difference. While I personally don't believe in going into more debt, to pay other debts, if it's enough to help, and save you money I'd definitely explore all options there. 

While the avalanche method (largest debt first to the smallest) of paying down debt will save you the most money in interest, being you have a small amount of extra cash every month to throw at paying above minimums the snowball method might work better for you and your psyche. Start with your lowest balance and pay it off, then take that monthly payment amount and combine it with the payment on the next smallest, until that's paid off... and so on.

You're making all your payments on time now, so I don't subscribe to the notion you should give up and go into default, or consider bankruptcy at this point. You just need to come up with a plan that works for you, and remain focused on seeing it through till the end. You've done well considering the circumstances, keep at it... you'll get to where you want to be.     

[FicoMike0]

Wow, you've got some high interest debt there. I hope you can get some relief. Intro rate card transfers, lower rate personal loan, try everything!

as far as your scores, those high utilization accounts are hurting you. Maybe we'll hear from the real experts, but here's my take. Utilization is scored separately for aggregate and individual accounts. Some of the thresholds are 9%, 29%, and 49%. They is value in getting agg under 9% and individual under 29%. You're a way from 9% on agg, but you are under 29%. I believe the individual is scored on the highest account, you could gain there by moving some balances. I'd hesitate doing that, since there are usually fees involved. You could stop using the high utilization accounts and putting all your extra money on them to bring them down. You're also in danger of balance chasing on those accounts.

The personal loan would be good, make sure you address the high utilization, even if you don't get enough to pay all the accounts in full. If you go that route, go for one with no prepay penalty and keep putting every extra dollar on the debt.

[Realist]

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@jamaster14 wrote:

Hi.  I've been chipping away at credit card debt after some unexpected medical debt and my spouse being laid off a bit put us in a big hole.  With my annual bonus, some side work and DW hustling with gig work was able to get it back to where i can cover all my monthly payments/minimums.

I'm looking to try and pay these down.  I have an extra 150-200 per month for now to add on top of minimums.  I'd love to apply for a 21-month no interest card like wells fargo reflect but i worry with my current score (705 FICO8) that ill probably get rejected for it and i dont want any inqueries that dont result in more credit.

I've tried all the softpull/pre-approvals but no luck.  So in addition to paying down im looking for short term score manipulation.  

1)  does having a lower individual card utilization matter, if so how much roughly?  For example my Wells Fargo card has 0 Balance and a $22000 limit.  My CapOne Venture has a 9480 balance and 10,200 limit.  would transfering the balance to my WF card be worth while?  that would take the utiliation on that balance from 9%$ of my Capital one card to being under 50% on my WF.

2) My credit union can probably get me 15k-25k personal loan at 8.99 - 12.99%.  i could that and pay down some credit balances.  what would an installment loan do to my credit score vs. having that balance be on my credit card.  obviously id be paying less interest, which is great because im really taking it in the rear there.

-no negative/derrogatory/late/baddies
-oldest credit line is 22 years

-4 new accounts last 2 years (9 months, 1 year, 1 year 5 months, 1 year 9 months)

-2 inqueries (4/2024, 12/2023)

Account	Balance	Limit	Ratio	APR
Prosper	$0.00	$1,000.00	0.0%	23.49%
Savor	$705.00	$1,300.00	54.2%	29.24%
Venture One	$0.00	$1,000.00	0.0%	27.15%
Paypal World Mastercard	$0.00	$6,500.00	0.0%	28.49%
Venture	$9,483.00	$10,200.00	93.0%	22.24%
Paypal	$0.00	$10,000.00	0.0%	29.24%
Amazon	$8,032.00	$10,000.00	80.3%	29.99%
Discover	$6,500.00	$10,500.00	61.9%	21.24%
QuickSilver	$127.00	$5,000.00	2.5%	27.15%
Evergreen	$1,056.00	$2,450.00	43.1%	23.74%
CareCredit	$0.00	$6,000.00	0.0%	29.99%
Wells Fargo	$0.00	$22,000.00	0.0%	24.24%
Amex	$0.00	$24,000.00	0.0%	28.24%
BoA	$28,231.00	$30,000.00	94.1%	25.49%
Citi	$27,138.00	$28,040.00	96.8%	26.24%
Total	$81,272.00	$167,990.00	48.4%	26.41%

---

You will have to make some serious decisions with this setup, sooner rather than later.  For what it's worth, you appear to be holding up better than you would expect, given the information you've provided.  Wait too long, and you might falter under the weight of any accumulating debt.

First and foremost, lenders want to see your back against the wall, and how well you can manage that debt.  The caveat to this, is they also want to see how well you can hold up debt across multiple loan types.  In the above projection, you appear to be only holding revolving CC debt, which weighs much too heavy in one category.

I believe the solution to this is to apply for the lowest rate consolidation loan you can find.  These might be personal loan rates, it might be less.  But, at the end of the day, you will save money.  Before you choose to distribute money anywhere, run an online calculator to determine the savings potential, and pay off the amounts that make sense for maximum gain.  The BoA and Citi may not factor into this equation, but all the other accounts may.  How much are they costing monthly, compared to the new loan?  Use this savings, to tackle one of the CC amounts until paid off.  Then take that same amount paid, plus the paid off amount, and apply it to the next account to snowball the effect.  You will have to be disciplined to find a way out.

If it's not obvious, adding an installment loan to your profile, will provide something that is more well rounded, over entirely all CC debt.  Paying down debt, will help to boost the score, but I won't lie.  It's going to take some work at these levels.

The other avenue, not recommended, but does do the job.  Default, ruin the credit profile for a minimum of seven years, and settle or delete the debt, and then take the difference as a taxable event.   All ethics aside, this is a legal opportunity afforded to every being within this country, should you fall upon a situation that offers no opportunity to recover from.  Filing for bankrupcty, the last resort.

There are multiple paths up the same mountain.  What path will you want to choose?

[SouthJamaica]

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@jamaster14 wrote:

Hi.  I've been chipping away at credit card debt after some unexpected medical debt and my spouse being laid off a bit put us in a big hole.  With my annual bonus, some side work and DW hustling with gig work was able to get it back to where i can cover all my monthly payments/minimums.

I'm looking to try and pay these down.  I have an extra 150-200 per month for now to add on top of minimums.  I'd love to apply for a 21-month no interest card like wells fargo reflect but i worry with my current score (705 FICO8) that ill probably get rejected for it and i dont want any inqueries that dont result in more credit.

I've tried all the softpull/pre-approvals but no luck.  So in addition to paying down im looking for short term score manipulation.  

1)  does having a lower individual card utilization matter, if so how much roughly?  For example my Wells Fargo card has 0 Balance and a $22000 limit.  My CapOne Venture has a 9480 balance and 10,200 limit.  would transfering the balance to my WF card be worth while?  that would take the utiliation on that balance from 9%$ of my Capital one card to being under 50% on my WF.

2) My credit union can probably get me 15k-25k personal loan at 8.99 - 12.99%.  i could that and pay down some credit balances.  what would an installment loan do to my credit score vs. having that balance be on my credit card.  obviously id be paying less interest, which is great because im really taking it in the rear there.

-no negative/derrogatory/late/baddies
-oldest credit line is 22 years

-4 new accounts last 2 years (9 months, 1 year, 1 year 5 months, 1 year 9 months)

-2 inqueries (4/2024, 12/2023)

Account	Balance	Limit	Ratio	APR
Prosper	$0.00	$1,000.00	0.0%	23.49%
Savor	$705.00	$1,300.00	54.2%	29.24%
Venture One	$0.00	$1,000.00	0.0%	27.15%
Paypal World Mastercard	$0.00	$6,500.00	0.0%	28.49%
Venture	$9,483.00	$10,200.00	93.0%	22.24%
Paypal	$0.00	$10,000.00	0.0%	29.24%
Amazon	$8,032.00	$10,000.00	80.3%	29.99%
Discover	$6,500.00	$10,500.00	61.9%	21.24%
QuickSilver	$127.00	$5,000.00	2.5%	27.15%
Evergreen	$1,056.00	$2,450.00	43.1%	23.74%
CareCredit	$0.00	$6,000.00	0.0%	29.99%
Wells Fargo	$0.00	$22,000.00	0.0%	24.24%
Amex	$0.00	$24,000.00	0.0%	28.24%
BoA	$28,231.00	$30,000.00	94.1%	25.49%
Citi	$27,138.00	$28,040.00	96.8%	26.24%
Total	$81,272.00	$167,990.00	48.4%	26.41%

---

1.  Card utilization.  Your FICO 8 scores are definitely affected by individual card utilization and there are 2 key thresholds to keep in mind. 28% and 48%. (Technically it's 30% and 50%, but to avoid rounding it's better to shoot for 28 and 48). If your accounts with > 48% are brought down to 48%, and accounts with > 28% are brought down to 28%, you will see gains in FICO 8. The other important threshold is probably 88%; it is widely believed that accounts in the 90% range are deemed 'maxed' and penalized additionally, so it is prudent to try to get all > 88% accounts down to 88 % or less.

The other side of the coin on utilization is that the number of zero balances is a separate factor. So that moving balances around to zero balance cards could cost a few points. But in FICO 8 and 9 that's less important. In the mortgage scores it gains in importance.

2.  Yes a loan like that would make economic sense, and if the proceeds are used to get your credit card balances down it would improve scores. Of course you are losing some points with the inquiry and adding a new account, but on balance you would likely gain points. If you have no other installment loans you would be gaining some points for having an open loan (yes I know that makes no sense, but it is what it is).

As an alternative you can wait it out for a couple of months to see if balance shifting gets your scores up in the 720 range, and then go for a card with a promo balance transfer fee, as in your first suggestion. If you get the card use no more than 48% or 28% of the available credit for the balance transfer.

[jamaster14]

Thank you for the reply.  some additional questions.

Capital one has a feature that allows me to transfer credit limit from one card to another.  for instance:

I can transfer $3800 from quicksilver limit to my Venture limit.  this would:

1. Decrease quicksilver from $5000 limit to $1200 Limit

2.  Quicksilver has no balance, so it would remain at 0% utilization

3. Increase Venture limit from $10,200 to $$14,000.  

4. Reduct Venture utilization from 93% to 66%

Is there any reason not to do this?

[jamaster14]

Thanks, i do have some installment loans.

1. Auto finance loan paid off 18 months ago - 100% on time.
   
   
2. A mortgage 7 years into 30 year fixed - 100% on time.
   
   
3. A Student loan (private).  22 years of 100%on time payments.  (12K left on $125k original amount)

I would like to avoid any default/bankruptcy options like the plague.  I agree id like not to take debt to pay debt but given the interest rates i believe ill be able to pay this down faster if the banks are taking less in interest with more going towards principal or even if it just slashes the monthly minimum in one area so i can snowball the others.