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IRS Question

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mikesonthemend
Valued Contributor

Re: IRS Question

touche




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Message 11 of 19
thornback
Senior Contributor

Re: IRS Question

All that said tho... as for the topic of lien reporting, I believe you are absolutely correct.  A new lein can report for an additional 10 years, should you default on a payment agreement, unless a withdrawal is granted after payment is satisfied.


@mikesonthemend wrote:

touche


 

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Message 12 of 19
zerofire
Valued Contributor

Re: IRS Question


@ccpat wrote:

I have an IRS 2007 bill that I went into negotions with.  Original bill was around 22,000.  It's now down to $8,000.  At some point, I renegotiated payment terms after I got behind and now I'm at a $1,000 per month payment. Februrary 20th was the end of the terms according to IRS (statue of limitations).  I didn't pay in April or May because I thought they wouldn't demand payment. I got a letter that I owed $2,000 for back pay and if I don't pay by July, they'll put a lien on my account and possibly garnish wages. 

 

At some point there was a lien on my credit report and it was removed.  

 

Is this a standard letter or can they do this after the statue of limitations.  I guess the IRS can do it...but will they?

 

If so, I'm just going to transfer it to a credit card and be done with it. 


The fun thing with the IRS is that as a government entity they follow a much looser set of rules. First the statute of limitations is just the legal meaning that they cannot sue you for it. If you are one year owed a refund they can withhold it from you to cover anything outstanding. The statute of limitations is 10yr after filing the return. However if you go into a payment plan, make a payment, or do any other funky thing that causes a pause or reset of the statute you will become fair game. Remember the government will outlive you and taxes are one of the two guarentees. Normally payment plans extend automaticly with the IRS until you have paid off everything as agreed.

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Message 13 of 19
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: IRS Question


@thornback wrote:

All that said tho... as for the topic of lien reporting, I believe you are absolutely correct.  A new lein can report for an additional 10 years, should you default on a payment agreement, unless a withdrawal is granted after payment is satisfied.


@mikesonthemend wrote:

touche


 


Actually as a result of the credit reporting changes from last year IIRC, liens aren't even kept in the dataset anymore.

 

Previously on a Fed tax lien it was basically fait accompli to get the lien withdrawn once it was released, you just had to file some paperwork.  States were all over the map, strangely my own from California was one of the least consumer friendly to deal with, but yes the original standard was 10 years after being paid.

 

+Many to the rest of the information you gave around assessment dates and extensions to the SOL, absolutely spot on for all the dealings I had with the IRS.

 

Backwoods: actually that 10k was a guideline, not a hard mandate... if you annoyed them enough (and I did) they will indeed file under 10k.  Of course in that one I had already paid it, and the collection agent whined at me for not having told him.  I was magnanimous and apologized haha and that was my last dealing knock on wood with the IRS.




        
Message 14 of 19
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: IRS Question


@DebtJoe wrote:
I'm fairly certain that there are no statue of limitations when it comes to the IRS collecting money owed to them. You could be taking a nap in heaven and you'd get a tap on your shoulder from the IRS talking about the money you owe them.

You are dead wrong. IRC Section 6502 limits the IRS Collection Statute to 10 years after Assessment except if that is extended. There is nothing the IRS itself can do to extend the Collection Statute Extension Date (CSED). The taxpayer can extend the CSED by:

 

Defaulting on an IRS Installment Agreement (1 month for each default)

Agreeing to an Extension of either a fixed amount of time or indeterminate amount of time

Filing Bankruptcy (extends by the amount of time the BK automatic Stay is effective plus 6 months)

Make an Offer in Compromise (extends by the amount of time the Offer is pending plus 1 month)

Message 15 of 19
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: IRS Question


@Anonymous wrote:

Once its PAID in full request a lien withdrawl NOT the same as release. You want a release also There are many things that extend to statue of limitations.   Yes  I am a retired CPA.   

 

At this point paid help will cost you more than the balance.  Before i retired the smallest cases were $2,500 fee and had to have a balance over $10,000  to the IRS


I am an active EA and I deal with a LOT of IRS collection issues.  I agree with all you have said in this thread.

Message 16 of 19
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: IRS Question


@mikesonthemend wrote:

@thornback wrote:

 

OP was referring to the Statute of Limitations for IRS debt collection - not bureau reporting of liens.

The collection SOL is, generally, 10 years from the date of assessment:

https://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/irm_05-001-019

 




Unless you make a new agreement with them.


Enering into an Installment Agreement by itself does not extend the CSED at all. That would take a side agreement and you would be within your rights to refuse to accept it. As a matter of strategy, the only time I would advise a client to accept an extension of the CSED would be if the (a) do not qualify for an Offer in Compromise or Currently Not Collectable status and (b) the Installment Agreement would be a Partial payment IA even after making all the payments on the CSED extension.

Message 17 of 19
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: IRS Question


@Anonymous wrote:

@DebtJoe wrote:
I'm fairly certain that there are no statue of limitations when it comes to the IRS collecting money owed to them. You could be taking a nap in heaven and you'd get a tap on your shoulder from the IRS talking about the money you owe them.

You are dead wrong. IRC Section 6502 limits the IRS Collection Statute to 10 years after Assessment except if that is extended. There is nothing the IRS itself can do to extend the Collection Statute Extension Date (CSED). The taxpayer can extend the CSED by:

 

Defaulting on an IRS Installment Agreement (1 month for each default)

Agreeing to an Extension of either a fixed amount of time or indeterminate amount of time

Filing Bankruptcy (extends by the amount of time the BK automatic Stay is effective plus 6 months)

Make an Offer in Compromise (extends by the amount of time the Offer is pending plus 1 month)


I thought the IRS could refile the lien, but this was almost never done?

 

Beyond that fully agreed with your analysis and 10 years after the 23c assessment date.




        
Message 18 of 19
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: IRS Question


@Revelate wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@DebtJoe wrote:
I'm fairly certain that there are no statue of limitations when it comes to the IRS collecting money owed to them. You could be taking a nap in heaven and you'd get a tap on your shoulder from the IRS talking about the money you owe them.

You are dead wrong. IRC Section 6502 limits the IRS Collection Statute to 10 years after Assessment except if that is extended. There is nothing the IRS itself can do to extend the Collection Statute Extension Date (CSED). The taxpayer can extend the CSED by:

 

Defaulting on an IRS Installment Agreement (1 month for each default)

Agreeing to an Extension of either a fixed amount of time or indeterminate amount of time

Filing Bankruptcy (extends by the amount of time the BK automatic Stay is effective plus 6 months)

Make an Offer in Compromise (extends by the amount of time the Offer is pending plus 1 month)


I thought the IRS could refile the lien, but this was almost never done?

 

Beyond that fully agreed with your analysis and 10 years after the 23c assessment date.


IRS needs legal right to refile lien - like there is no CSED due to fraud or criminal activity. Outside that, IRS cannot refile lien that extends past the CSED.

Message 19 of 19
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