Learning to save and invest, your feed back is valued.

[wa3more]

I saw your comment , Bitcoin is backed by math. I disagree. It's backed by the greater fool theory. The math that backs an investment is book value/cash flows and the present value of those flows.

How do you value bitcoin ?? No assets/cash flow. I would buy gold instead and thats not saying much. At least gold has been a good store of value for last 5,000 years..

Investing in bitcoin..an oxymoron. Just ask people who bought tulip bulps and internet stocks in 1999/2000. I know many tech people that got absolutely killed in 2000. "its differently this time. You don't know the internet" this is what I was told when i was telling people to buy banks and stocks like Philip Morris/Home Depot at the time. And Warren Buffett ? He just didn't get it....

People should realize if they want to ....speculate ...on bitcoin , to take 5-10% of their money but realize it is not investing. Buying with the hopes of something going higher is speculating . Investing is getting a return of your capital and on your capital. I'm sure people bought bitcoin recently at 20k . What is it lately ? 8k or so ? IDK....

[Anonymous]

Bitcoin is an asset but no its not backed by anything in that sense. Is the dollar? I hope no one bought at 20k.

As a disclaimer to my posts I have no bitcoin now and don't plan on investing any time soon, just interested in the technology.

But saying it has no value I think is way off.

Saying the bubble will burst is right on the money though, you'd have to be blind not to see it.

But the internet is still here, housing is still here, bitcoin will survive its crash too or people will move to the next crypto coin.

My point is this: There are a lot of transactions and people using it so that to me says those people have ascribed it value.

Whether its speculation or investment I think if you are trying to draw that distinction you are kidding yourself.

You can lose your shirt in stocks or options or futures or metals or any of that just as easily.

I think many dislike crypto on a personal level based on what they are reading from mega corps that are invested financially with the big banks.

[Anonymous]

Sorry to double post but saw this on reddit I think its more to the point about all currency:

"Just like every other currency ever used by mankind, Bitcoin is only as good as the people believing in it and willing to use it. There are many proxies that lead to that belief: gold because of its scarcity and history, fiat because of (eroding) faith in government and threat of violence, Bitcoins because of its various virtues that need no repeating here. But ultimately, it's people believing and using the currency that makes it worth something. "

[wa3more]

Remember in 1999/2000 how Netscape was the king of the internet ? Iomega ? AOL was worth more than Microsoft and 5 other large tech companies behind ? ICMG think it was, the internet incubator ? all gone. This is what happens when a new technolgy or media evolves.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out. I have seen this many times in almost 40 years.  I knew many CIO's and tech people who lost 50-90% of their retirement money in 2000. I know people who recently got into bitcoin at 17k because they read it is going to 100k. They are not too happy....

[Anonymous]

---

@bada_bing wrote:

---

If You Can

The free book at that link above is pretty much all 98% of personal investors need to know.

Pay special attention to the idea that you can pick stocks that do better than the market average

or time when the market is going to surge or shrink. These are beguiling ideas that have been shown

convincingly to be false. You probably will need to experience it to convince youself of it's validity.

That's okay, almost everyone does.

---

The most important thing our OP should be doing is reading basic books that ground him or her in the fundamentals, written by well reviewed authors with no ideological agenda (not pushing any particular product or product type).

IF YOU CAN was written by William Bernstein, one of the most respected authors out there.  It's available free because as he became older (and especially after the terrible meltdown of 2008) he felt it was crucial for beginners to have a short clear introduction that would be completely free.

If a person finds IF YOU CAN helpful, he can try Bernstein's more advanced book (but still for beginners) "The Investors Manifesto."

[wa3more]

Also look at the history of money.  It was always backed by gold or silver. The romans always had a currency backed by metal and then they started to debase the currency when they were short on money and the empire failed. The US was on gold standard util I think Nixon tooks us off in 1971 and maybe for a few years in 1920's and 1930's.  In the 1960's, silver dollars were no longer silver dollars .

The fall of most empires has been due to the debasing currency. Lenin in the 1920's said this is the easiest way to ruin an economy. So we have paper money worth nothing.

[Anonymous]

[quote]

Also look at the history of money.  It was always backed by gold or silver. The romans always had a currency backed by metal and then they started to debase the currency when they were short on money and the empire failed. The US was on gold standard util I think Nixon tooks us off in 1971 and maybe for a few years in 1920's and 1930's.  In the 1960's, silver dollars were no longer silver dollars .

The fall of most empires has been due to the debasing currency. Lenin in the 1920's said this is the easiest way to ruin an economy. So we have paper money worth nothing.[/quote]

Good point.

[Anonymous]

Btw i cannot help but wonder, why do we value gold so much? We cant eat it ,breath it or take it with us when we die. So over millenia why gold has been valued so much ? coz it looks shiny and cant be destroyed easily and is a symbol of opposite of change that we fear so much.?and is it because of this there is a mass belief that 'gold' has value and weight?. Other than that i had heard someone say that it has scientific property or ability to cleanse pollution ,but then mass delusion has made people hoard it and not use it for any real practicle purpose other than 'jewellery' .  So if mass conciousness of humanity   believes something to be valuable , indestructable in a certain way whats stopping them from changing the belief?

'Habit' ? 'Illusion of safety ,immortality'? ' Comfort in knowing the belief is old'? Survived kings and queens ? I mean really. What makes 'gold' more valuable than anything else?. Its a mass agreement based on mass agreement. Lol and what happens one day every one wants to change their belief about whats valuable?  If oneday people just let the gold be and loose interest in hoarding it or making it an asset , the illusion of gold being abosolute security breaks. See after all its what we all agree collectively to be true  is what appears to be very real. In that moment. In that century, in that age.

May be now for some crypto appears indestructible ?

Symbol of something that cant be abused, meddled with to control the mass , corrupted and designed in such a way to benefit all? I dont know . At least most revolutions start with this kind of intention before the fear of lack corrupts its purpose? These are just tools . Gold or cypto.

What people are looking for is something that supports life , all of life , reflects to us the best in us, to live with the understanding that one is taken care if ,that all is well? That we are ok?

You know, that typical thing called safety and  comfort that we assume or expect that our money to bring us

Btw i do hear each and every one of your suggestions and appreciate all that you are bringing to this discussion and value it immensly. Do keep it coming. I love hearing different perpectives ,it makes me see more and the bigger picture.