Accurate FICO’s

[LXRM36]

Wow... LOTS of info there! Thank you all for pitching in your experience in the credit game to answer my questions!

I will say that I started with the FICO score from TU on my BOA card. I knew there were three bureaus, and they are not the same; neither in score nor scoring criteria. Yet, as pointed out earlier, all are accurate. I also used Vantage 3.0 from CO. I eventually signed up for CK, and when I started getting the three little sheets of paper that seem to come with every credit card when you’re approved, I realized something was off. That’s when I learned it’s nothing more than a “guesstimate” with CK, and could be off 5-50 pts either way.

I bit the bullet and signed up for myFICO. Today, I can go back through the last several months and figure out (for the most part) exactly what scoring system the companies are using. I was a little shocked to see that score varied from the 630’s to the 740’s. And this FICO9, while the scores all seem to have less variance (by at least a few points) seem to be a little lower. I’m sure it has to do with what all every scoring system takes into account. I.e. I heard FICO8 doesn’t consider medical collections. Right or wrong, that is reflected in my current score.

I find most of the simulators to be best guesstimates at best. I really think it depends on each individual’s history and situation in the credit game. I simulated what it would be like today if my credit line increased by 10K to 100K. Oddly enough, 10-20K increased my score while anything above that either decreased or had no effect. May have to do with debt to income, income alone, or something else, or a number of something elses.

Bottom line, I’m becoming more educated which was the entire point of all of this. While myFICO is expensive, it has opened my eyes to QUITE a bit already! I welcome any and all continued responses. Thank you all once again!!! 👍🏻

[909]

You’re learning! It sounds like you’re where I was a few years back. Every bit of new information revealed more about what is important and what isn’t.

A quick note on CK and your comment that they provide a guesstimate. The fact is that CK’s Vantage 3 scores are also accurate per their model. The problem is that the vast majority of lenders don’t use the CK scores. Are CK scores a number? Yes. Are they accurate? Yes. Are they relevant if you’re seeking credit? For the most part, no (that’s why the numbers on the letters from CC approvals or denials did not match the CK numbers. But they also most likely did not match FICO mortgage or auto loan scores either.

As for simulators, I don’t recommend using them or believing they mean anything. That’s a nice way for saying they’re worthless. Most college undergrads in data science could produce something better and only get a C grade for their work.

Here are some learnings:
- Fico scores (there are many) are mostly the only ones that matter
- Simulators range from not helpful to useless
- Factors (good and bad) listed on myFico that drive your scores are not very helpful, some are just plain meaningless.

The world of credit scoring is not transparent and there’s a lot of bad information out there.

Keep learning, you’re probably in the 80th or 90th percentile of credit scoring savvy: you already know waaay more than most folks.

[LXRM36]

Thanks 909! It seems like this is a deal where you can never stop learning! With the scoring systems changing all the time and new info being taken into consideration, it seems like the best thing to do is learn as much as you can, expand your portfolio when you can - whether that’s through CLI’s or new accounts, though I’m much higher on CLI’s so as to not affect AAoA, and decrease utilization as much as possible.

Love the info available in this forum!

[HeavenOhio]

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@909 wrote:
The fact is that CK’s Vantage 3 scores are also accurate per their model.

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Yup. The inaccuracies on CK have to do with their front-end software and not with their scores. Closed accounts count toward account age stats in both FICO and VantageScore. CK omits them. And utilization percentages always round up. It's particularly misleading when you have a small positive balance and CK tells you that you have 0% utilization. A $5 balance on $500,000 worth of credit limits is still 1%.

[Anonymous]

My memory is that Karma is not the only credit monitoring system (CMS) that rounds to the nearest integer percent when displaying utilization.  Credit Check Total may do that too (though I ask BBS or anyone else to correct me if I am mistaken there).  Discover Score Card might do that.  It would certainly be better if every CMS (on its front end summary) rounded up.

BTW, if anyone wants to see a Vantage-based CMS that correctly captures the effect that closed accounts have on AAoA, you can see that with Credit.com.  I think the fluke with Karma is that Vantage 2.0 might truly have ignored closed accounts in its AAoA.  (I think somebody here on the forum told me that.)  That doesn't explain why Karma hasn't changed its front end software in the last three years (they switched to 3.0 in Q1 2015).

PS.  Any person who has closed accounts with a positive balance should be very careful when using the front end summary page of a CMS to do your utilization calculation.  All closed accounts are treated by the back end scoring algorithm as having a zero credit limit, regardless of what your report says.  And the balance of a closed card DOES count toward utilization.  (The algorithm also treats that card has maxxed out.)  Any particular CMS front end may get this wrong.

[Anonymous]

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@LXRM36 wrote:
Thanks 909! It seems like this is a deal where you can never stop learning! With the scoring systems changing all the time and new info being taken into consideration, it seems like the best thing to do is learn as much as you can, expand your portfolio when you can - whether that’s through CLI’s or new accounts, though I’m much higher on CLI’s so as to not affect AAoA, and decrease utilization as much as possible.

Love the info available in this forum!

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Hey pal!  Nice having you here.

Just so you know, your score will not go up by raising your CLs.  In and of themselves, big CLs do not give you even a single extra point. It's possible to have three cards, each with a 1k limit, and charge 10k per month on them -- all while having a reported utilization of < 5%. 

As far as adding more accounts, you already have a zillion cards.  More cards (or other accounts) will just lower your AAoA and your AoYA.  Of course, you might end up wanting another card because of a sign up bonus, though even there be careful to make sure you are not spending a dime extra than you would if you only had debit cards -- otherwise the cards are inducing you to spend money and they are ultimately costing you more than you make in rewards.

The point is however that bigger CLs and more accounts will not help your score -- given what you already have in your signature.  Just important to be aware of that so that you make the best choices for yourself.

[HeavenOhio]

Just to give an example, I have plenty in overall credit limits. If my balances total 5% of that, I'm concerned that I'm spending a bit much.

But I'd like CLIs on a couple of lower-limit cards, just to give me a bit more flexibility when I use them. And I'd like to add one more card with a decent limit to the mix to have the flexibility of one more card that can accommodate a couple of large expenses here and there. So while my overall limits are fine, addressing other wants/needs will increase them by default.