@Curious_George2 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:@Curious_George2 I think that the new account reason code for EX2 is many new accounts. I don't think that's a spree code. Has anyone ever seen new account on EX2 that was not many new accounts?
@Revelate we were curious whether AWB is a code in dirty cards on classic? Should be seeing a new account code but are not unless it's in fifth place.
Interesting suggestion. Maybe it's both. Maybe it functions like Credit Seeking, where it gets flipped on with any signal (i.e. 1 new account) but the penalty is small. Then the magnitude of the penalty increases if more new accounts show up, but the reason code stays constant. Was that already super obvious to everyone else and I'm just now catching up?
No, you're good. 
Too many AWB did move up on my clean scorecard with the addition of a third card and stayed in the same spot when the 4th showed up.
Except for TU4 , where AWB didn't show up until the 4th card! Along with a -18pt decrease.
@Anonymous wrote:
@Curious_George2 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Slabenstein wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Slabenstein wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Slabenstein wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Very true! 😊 also assuming SO is not maxed out otherwise, too.
We need to collect data points and determine whether 90s & 120s switch back or not and if so where. We can only determine it from a classic score, not an industry option though because it can have a new account code longer.These are their EX2 negative reason codes (or CCT's version of them):
They seem to have one for inquiries but not new accounts, at least among the top 4. I also wonder whether "serious delinquency" indicates a dirty scorecard or not. That "accounts with balances" is one of them is interesting (this is with 4/5 open accounts reporting a balance; they've paid off one of their private SLs in the time since I did the AZEO tests).
@Slabenstein it's interesting that it has accounts with a balance. I wonder if that is a clue? Let me page @Revelate ! Help!
The only thing I knew for sure was on classic Score, if you see a new account Reason Code it is a Clean card, but AWB may also qualify?
@Slabenstein what is SO's AoYA?
7 mo's
@Slabenstein wow, how many inquiries? New accounts probably number five.
New accounts are 2. The student loans are 13+ y.o. & the AU cc is 6 yrs 8 mo's. 2 inq's on EX, so maybe what CCT is labelling "seeking credit" means something broader.
@Slabenstein I mean the new account code is probably in position number five. no seeking credit is just inquiries. You would think the new account Penalty would outweigh the 2 inquiries though.
This is a fascinating discussion! Sorry to butt in, but I have data that might be helpful. Here's what my EX2 looked like when I had one inquiry and AoYA was 8 months:
Similar reasons to Slab's spouse's. No penalty for New Account. Very sensitive to credit seeking, but for me the spree penalty was in first position. I had 4 accounts under 18 mos old, if we think that's what the spree penalty looks at. I keep a log of all my reason statements on all scores. With that, I can see I have never received the New Account reason on any EX score. It's prominent and persistent on EQ5 (classic and industry variants) and TU4 (ditto). Conversely, I have seen the Spree Penalty reason a lot, but only on EX.
In other words, it looks to me like EX2 doesn't actually have a penalty for a single new account. EQ5 and TU4 clearly do. But EX2 deals with the same basic risk issue by penalizing sprees harshly. EQ5 and TU4 don't penalize for sprees. Another way to look at it is if you app for one TL, EX2 penalizes you for the inquiry but not the account per se. EQ5 and TU4 take the opposite approach.
@Curious_George2 I think that the new account reason code for EX2 is many new accounts. I don't think that's a spree code. Has anyone ever seen new account on EX2 that was not many new accounts?
@Revelate we were curious whether AWB is a code in dirty cards on classic? Should be seeing a new account code but are not unless it's in fifth place.
I am confident that AWB is there for dirty scorecards. Call it conventional wisdom but AZEO works for mortgage optimization for thousands of people over in the mortage board over time.
When I was dirty and doing my own testing I didn't have good information on EX 2. Experian service really opened that up.
As for conflated reason codes for new accounts I reject that absolutely. Not all reason codes exist in all scorecards, there is conclusive evidence on TU04 with it's ability to get down to 2-3 reason codes in the derog scorecards and there are plenty of people including yours truly that beat their credit like a rented mule, that were tracking, and never got a shift except when they went over a AAOA boundary.
I don't buy new accounts being in some 5th place there is overwhelming anecdotal data for even EX 2 that it does not.
@Anonymous wrote:@Slabenstein: Could you tell me if this is similar to the explanation you see for "Bad payment history"?
(The wording may have change a little bit over the years.)
"Missed and late payments, including the number of late payments, how late they were, and how recently they occurred, are an important part of your FICO® Score. Your score was hurt because you have missed payments to your creditors."
That's EX 2, Code 46, Payments due on accounts.
And you should see similar to this for Serious Delinquency (EX 2, Code 39, Serious Delinquency):
"The presence of a serious delinquency is a powerful predictor of future payment risk. People with previous late payments are much more likely to pay late in the future. As these items age, the impact on your FICO® Score will gradually decrease. Most late payments stay on your report for no more than 7 years."
This is what it says for those two:
@Revelate wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Curious_George2 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Slabenstein wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Slabenstein wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Slabenstein wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Very true! 😊 also assuming SO is not maxed out otherwise, too.
We need to collect data points and determine whether 90s & 120s switch back or not and if so where. We can only determine it from a classic score, not an industry option though because it can have a new account code longer.These are their EX2 negative reason codes (or CCT's version of them):
They seem to have one for inquiries but not new accounts, at least among the top 4. I also wonder whether "serious delinquency" indicates a dirty scorecard or not. That "accounts with balances" is one of them is interesting (this is with 4/5 open accounts reporting a balance; they've paid off one of their private SLs in the time since I did the AZEO tests).
@Slabenstein it's interesting that it has accounts with a balance. I wonder if that is a clue? Let me page @Revelate ! Help!
The only thing I knew for sure was on classic Score, if you see a new account Reason Code it is a Clean card, but AWB may also qualify?
@Slabenstein what is SO's AoYA?
7 mo's
@Slabenstein wow, how many inquiries? New accounts probably number five.
New accounts are 2. The student loans are 13+ y.o. & the AU cc is 6 yrs 8 mo's. 2 inq's on EX, so maybe what CCT is labelling "seeking credit" means something broader.
@Slabenstein I mean the new account code is probably in position number five. no seeking credit is just inquiries. You would think the new account Penalty would outweigh the 2 inquiries though.
This is a fascinating discussion! Sorry to butt in, but I have data that might be helpful. Here's what my EX2 looked like when I had one inquiry and AoYA was 8 months:
Similar reasons to Slab's spouse's. No penalty for New Account. Very sensitive to credit seeking, but for me the spree penalty was in first position. I had 4 accounts under 18 mos old, if we think that's what the spree penalty looks at. I keep a log of all my reason statements on all scores. With that, I can see I have never received the New Account reason on any EX score. It's prominent and persistent on EQ5 (classic and industry variants) and TU4 (ditto). Conversely, I have seen the Spree Penalty reason a lot, but only on EX.
In other words, it looks to me like EX2 doesn't actually have a penalty for a single new account. EQ5 and TU4 clearly do. But EX2 deals with the same basic risk issue by penalizing sprees harshly. EQ5 and TU4 don't penalize for sprees. Another way to look at it is if you app for one TL, EX2 penalizes you for the inquiry but not the account per se. EQ5 and TU4 take the opposite approach.
@Curious_George2 I think that the new account reason code for EX2 is many new accounts. I don't think that's a spree code. Has anyone ever seen new account on EX2 that was not many new accounts?
@Revelate we were curious whether AWB is a code in dirty cards on classic? Should be seeing a new account code but are not unless it's in fifth place.
I am confident that AWB is there for dirty scorecards. Call it conventional wisdom but AZEO works for mortgage optimization for thousands of people over in the mortage board over time.
When I was dirty and doing my own testing I didn't have good information on EX 2. Experian service really opened that up.
As for conflated reason codes for new accounts I reject that absolutely. Not all reason codes exist in all scorecards, there is conclusive evidence on TU04 with it's ability to get down to 2-3 reason codes in the derog scorecards and there are plenty of people including yours truly that beat their credit like a rented mule, that were tracking, and never got a shift except when they went over a AAOA boundary.
I don't buy new accounts being in some 5th place there is overwhelming anecdotal data for even EX 2 that it does not.
@Revelate OK thank you! AWB is there for dirty cards. And if you don't think new accounts could be in fifth place, then SO must be in a dirty card @Slabenstein. The lack of the new account reason code & having a new account under 18 months is going to demonstrate SO is still in a dirty card, I believe.
@Revelate I would expect AZEO to optimize even if it wasn't because of AWB, because it also optimizes balance, Utilization, ect... btw, thank you! We are trying to figure out at what point do profiles stop returning to clean cards at 2 years on mortgage scores. We believe a 60 day late does, apparently a 120 does not.
So now we need to find out when and if 90 and 120s go back to a clean cards on the mortgage Scores.
@Anonymous wrote:@Revelate OK thank you! AWB is there for dirty cards. And if you don't think new accounts could be in fifth place, then SO must be in a dirty card @Slabenstein. The lack of the new account reason code & having a new account under 18 months is going to demonstrate SO is still in a dirty card, I believe.
@Revelate I would expect AZEO to optimize even if it wasn't because of AWB, because it also optimizes balance, Utilization, ect... btw, thank you! We are trying to figure out at what point do profiles stop returning to clean cards at 2 years on mortgage scores. We believe a 60 day late does, apparently a 120 does not.
So now we need to find out when and if 90 and 120s go back to a clean cards on the mortgage Scores.
Not sure if AWB is there for EX2 on dirty scorecards or not. My scorecard doesn't have many accounts with balances at this time, but my DW's report is nearly full (cycled sockdrawered cards recently and let them report a balance). She has 9 of 11 CC's reporting a balance, most under $10 but I did allow a few larger balances report this month. 1 auto loan with a balance, no other loans. She has a BK7 from 2012 still reporting, no collections or other derogs. Below is her EX2 from today.
Her EX2 had been rock solid for many, many months @ 709 up until her last INQ aged to 1 yr last month, which boosted her score to the present 715 and hasn't budged since. That's after going from 3 accounts with balances reporting last month to the current 10 (9 CC's + 1 auto loan).
