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Datapoints - FICO drops and increases

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Zoostation1
Valued Contributor

Datapoints - FICO drops and increases

Last month I posted in here about a signfiicant drop in certain FICO8 scores and all my FICO9 scores with what I thought was a relatively small utilization increase.  Just want to share some data points/comments after reducing my utilization and seeing my full score reports today.

 

Dirty scorecard (CH7 discharged 2/18, Oldest account opened 11/21, newest opened 2/22):

Current hard inquiries:  EQ and TU: 1/6, 1/12, 1/24, EX: 2/6, 2/12, 2/24

 

June: (initial data point):  2 credit cards.  $2000 limit 5% utilization, $400 limit 0% utilization, 9% aggregate utilization

July:  2 credit cards. $2000 limit 10% utilization, $400 limit 6% utilization (FWIW a transaction I initiated at 11pm on closing date reported), 9% aggregate utilization

August: 2 credit cards.  $2000 limit 2% utilization , $1800 limit (CLI end of June that reported for the first time) 0% util, 1% aggregate utilization

 

FICO8

  • JUN: EQ 659, TU 656, EX 663
  • JUL:  EQ 643, TU 656, EX 660
  • AUG:  EQ 659, TU 656, EX 663
    • Apparently TU is not as sensitive to usage once you are 10% or below, less sensitive to 2 of 2 cards on dirty scorecard reporting.
    • EQ seems the most sensitive , especially to 2 of 2 reporting balances
      • 12 of the 16pts were gained from the lower limit card reporting 0, the other 4pts came back a couple days later once the higher limit card reported the reduced balanceAll other FICO8 variants increased exactly back to June numbers
      • All of the other FICO8 variants returned to the June levels with the reduced utilization and AZEO

FICO9

  • JUN:  EQ 690, TU 687, EX 694
  • JUL:  EQ 666, TU 663, EX 671
  • AUG:  EQ 692, TU, 691, EX 697
    • All FICO9 scores seem far more sensitive to utilization than FICO8.  With these only updating monthly I can't tell how much of an impact AZEO makes versus 2 of 2 reporting
    • Much higher current ceiling given my dirty thin profile than FICO8

FICO10

  • JUN EQ 641, TU 654, EX 647
  • JUL EQ 630, TU 637, EX 641
  • AUG EQ 661, TU 667, EX 659
    • Also very sensitive to utilization (much more so than FICO8) and also unable to tell how much impact 2 of 2 reporting
    • Slightly higher ceiling for current profile with very low utilization than FICO8, lower ceiling than FICO9

FICO10T

  • JUN:  EQ 654, TU 668, EX 658
  • JUL:  EQ  647, TU 653, EX 655
  • AUG: EQ  682, TU 684, EX 672
    • Also very sensitive to utilization relative to FICO8, especially EQ and TU.  A whopping 35pt increase on EQ from Jul to Aug.
    • Higher ceiling for current profile with very low utilization than FICO8 and FICO10, not quite as high as FICO9

I hope this data is useful.  I have 2 cards I'd like to add in the future - first one is Savor One, second would be BCE (or possibly BCP) once I'm past the Amex BK blacklist (not IIB).  I'm still undecided on how much longer to wait to apply for Savor One, but at minimum I'm waiting till I get my first check at my new job so I can claim the new higher income level.  I may wait till November when the first inquiry (EX only) falls off.

 

Edit: Corrected a typo and also noting that it's a bit depressing to see my FICO8 scores be my lowest when they're the most commonly used.  Also nervous about any future adoption of FICO10 as it seems to really penalize you significantly just for using your cards for everyday transactions.  It's as if you have to micro manage in ways the average person will not do (nor should they have to) in order to keep a fairly high score, especially if you're limits aren't really high.  We really need a scoring model that doesn't penalize you much purely based on what you report on the closing date.  If you have 2 people with card X and everything equal as far as credit and income.  Let's say a $5k limit card with a statement close of the 25th, due date the following  20th)  Person A charges $2.5k on the 5th and pays it off exactly 2wks later on the 19th, person B charges the same $2.5k on the 20th and pays it off on the 4th (assuming a 30 day month).  Though it's the same 2wks from charge to payment and no interest paid we all know person B is going to get significantly dinged despite paying no interest and that's a problem that will only get worse if/when the FICO10 suite is adopted.

Rebuild Started Nov 2021
June 2022 FICO 8:
June 2022 FICO 9:
Dec 2024 FICO 8:
Dec 2024 FICO 9:
Message 1 of 8
7 REPLIES 7
SweetCreditObsession
Valued Contributor

Re: Datapoints - FICO drops and increases

These data points are very useful and refreshing. It's always nice to have this information as you never know who you might be able to help. I appreciate you sharing it. Smiley Happy



(+102) | (+106) | (+151)
| TU Fico 9: ? | Exp Fico 9: ? | EQ Fico 9: ?| EQ Fico 8 Bankcard: TBA

Initial Goal: Min. 740 w/all CRAs - Met
Interim Goal: 780 w/all CRAs - Met
Current Goal(s): Min. 800 w/all CRAs
Gardening Until: ??/??/202?| Last App: 10/20/2023





Message 2 of 8
TheKid2
Established Contributor

Re: Datapoints - FICO drops and increases

Thanks for sharing all those DPs.

 

I don't think you'll ever get a scoring model that's doesn't factor in your current credit card balances. Prospective lenders from a risk perspective can't assume that you'll pay off the balance every month, they can only go by what you owe at that moment. You mention that this is 'micro managing' and I understand what you're saying about it, but you need to take control of the debt both from a scoring and financial perspective. If you're letting high balances report then you're paying interest. I use my rewards card for everything to earn points then pay it off before the statement cuts every month. It's a habit to keep my utilization low and it's part of my budgeting. Yes, the newer models appear to be more sensitive to recent balances month to month, but we are probably a long way off from those get used. By then you will be well past your BK and have plenty of high CL cards. With the habit of paying off my cards early, my FICO 10 scores are significantly higher than my FICO 8 / 9 and I always know my scores will be good if I need to apply for something.

 

I'd recommend you consider getting into the habit of doing this by paying the cards off before they report. If this is a matter of timing for you (like from when you get paid), you can contact the cards and have the payment date moved to a different day of the month. This way you can pay them off before they report and get into a cycle that works for you. Maybe it's something to consider as your scores will like it.

 

Good luck and thanks again for sharing.

 

 

JOINED 4/2020


FICO 8 = 582, 620, 589 / Mortgage = 633, 526, 581


CURRENT PEAK *Thanks to the MF Community!


FICO 8 = 715, 711, 720 / Mortgage = 688, 696, 681

Message 3 of 8
Zoostation1
Valued Contributor

Re: Datapoints - FICO drops and increases

I say micro managing only because I use my two cards for nearly all my transactions (I pay off my cards 3-5 times per month and pay periods arent an issue, I'm not spending money I dont already have) but with low limits it's been difficult to keep my statement balance low enough to not get dinged significantly.  I think right now my best bet is to make it easier is to change my due date on one card. Currently both cards are due the 20th.  One has a fixed statement close of the 25th and the other can range between 23rd-26th based on whether it's a 28/30/31 day month.  if I move the fixed one to a 15th due date/20th closing date that would give me a better window I think.  Right now if both statements close over the weekend it can be a problem since they're often my highest spend days (unless I forgo some cash back and use a debit card).  

Rebuild Started Nov 2021
June 2022 FICO 8:
June 2022 FICO 9:
Dec 2024 FICO 8:
Dec 2024 FICO 9:
Message 4 of 8
TheKid2
Established Contributor

Re: Datapoints - FICO drops and increases


@Zoostation1 wrote:

I say micro managing only because I use my two cards for nearly all my transactions (I pay off my cards 3-5 times per month and pay periods arent an issue, I'm not spending money I dont already have) but with low limits it's been difficult to keep my statement balance low enough to not get dinged significantly.  I think right now my best bet is to make it easier is to change my due date on one card. Currently both cards are due the 20th.  One has a fixed statement close of the 25th and the other can range between 23rd-26th based on whether it's a 28/30/31 day month.  if I move the fixed one to a 15th due date/20th closing date that would give me a better window I think.  Right now if both statements close over the weekend it can be a problem since they're often my highest spend days (unless I forgo some cash back and use a debit card).  


Right I totally get that! Smart thinking on switching the due dates. Sometimes with pending transactions I report balances higher than I like. Once you begin to get higher CLs that should take care of itself because I rarely run into issues where I'm reporting over 9% on the card even when I make big transactions close to the statement being cut. Early in my rebuild I was being driven crazy just like it sounds for you. It definitely gets better! Good luck.

 

JOINED 4/2020


FICO 8 = 582, 620, 589 / Mortgage = 633, 526, 581


CURRENT PEAK *Thanks to the MF Community!


FICO 8 = 715, 711, 720 / Mortgage = 688, 696, 681

Message 5 of 8
FireMedic1
Community Leader
Mega Contributor

Re: Datapoints - FICO drops and increases

@Zoostation1Until a file is thicker from thin. Any movement that reports is a whole lot of points up and down. When I started out of BK. HP's were 10+/- points. New accounts the same. It was like. How can I rebuild my file and score? This is nuts. Once things started to fall in place and the accounts started to build up. Age metrics of accounts means alot. The hits were alot less. My newest account a couple months ago with AMEX. No points lost from the HP or the new account. It will take a few years to build up AoOA and AAoA's. Until then you sneeze and points lost. Just having your AAoA's pass 2 yrs is a good thing. Your building and it takes time. Yeah I was like many here. I want to be like him/her in the begining. Doesn't work that way. You finished the foundation. Your building the home of credit now. Just takes time. Juggling payments and dates of reporting and so forth really doesnt do much. The old "like wine". You know the rest. Just takes time.


Message 6 of 8
Zoostation1
Valued Contributor

Re: Datapoints - FICO drops and increases

I know I need to be more patient...it just feels like the amount of score movement month to month can be enough to make/break approval or denial on my next card app.

Rebuild Started Nov 2021
June 2022 FICO 8:
June 2022 FICO 9:
Dec 2024 FICO 8:
Dec 2024 FICO 9:
Message 7 of 8
FireMedic1
Community Leader
Mega Contributor

Re: Datapoints - FICO drops and increases

I cant remember all your moves. Spreading things out 6 months for apps. Helps. Everything has to rebound. What I did was once I hit 700. Apply. Approved. Here come the hits. Waited to hit 700 again. Rinse and repeat. Then as time went on. The low score was 710 then 720 and it stopped at 730's. I'm stuck for 4 more years until the BK falls off. I peaked for a short period at 749 with a SSL. But that went away when the SSL was below 8.99%, then closed, and the new Explorer was purchased and 2 new cards. On EX I am at 20yrs+ AoOA and AAoA of 4yrs 8 months. Just takes time fellow poster. Once you hit 700 a whole new world opens. Playing in the 600's to start off is fine. But there comes a time when age has to do the rest and hold off on any new moves. Patience grasshopper.


Message 8 of 8
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