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I totally agree. It works well for the sub par loan companies that can charge you outrageous interest. So if you make a decent buck, your going to need credit to buy any large item, ie home, car large appliances. So now the sub pars step in and charge you a arm and leg for a loan. They dropped my score 60 points for a $178.00 Judgement. I make over $100.000 and can't get a decent loan.
@Anonymous wrote:I totally agree. It works well for the sub par loan companies that can charge you outrageous interest. So if you make a decent buck, your going to need credit to buy any large item, ie home, car large appliances. So now the sub pars step in and charge you a arm and leg for a loan. They dropped my score 60 points for a $178.00 Judgement. I make over $100.000 and can't get a decent loan.
FICO algorithym is based on propensity to pay, not ability to pay. Fix the judgment and your score will go back up. Since you make $100K, $178 is not that much. In addition, you already have a credit history and your current cards will not drop you because of the judgment.
If the judgement is incorrect, dispute it. If the judgement isn't, see if you can get a PFD. The fact that people want a higher score, doesn't make FICO incorrect. I want to pay off my house and cars. Since I just got a new house loan, it'll be a while. But my score will go down when I no longer have installment loans.
Because FICO is based on the use of credit and using it wisely. It will no longer have installment loans that indicate wise usage of a mix of credit. However, as long as I keep using and rotating my card usage, my scores will remain high. I've seen some people state that they've managed to be in the 800s without installment loans. I eventually want to be one of those people. But that's a minimum of 15 - 20 years down the road. I have a 30 year home loan, but without coming out of retirement I can't see a way to pay it off more than 15 years early.
@Anonymous wrote:My main issue is ths 'score' has circumvented the lender to borrower relationship. This simple score dictates way too much... no decision taken by bank, just an algorithm now. FICO doesn't consider: age;experience; work history; education; field of work; location; family; savings; spending (cash) and much more. It's really a foolish mess. I've had okay credit for 20 years, yet oddly, haven't missed one payment in that time, regardless of what FICO thinks or tries to predict. I'm a programmer, and to be honest, I'd fire the lot that came up with this "roll of the chicken bones"... yep it's a game only, with my only real advice is to learn how to play it, and it has little to do with paying off debt!
OP, I started a new thread for you. ~Lexie
This is someone trolling! Are you going to tell me that someone has been lurking for however long; and their first post is about this here? I am not taking the bait.
As already mentioned, Fico scores are just one of the deciding factors in determining someone's creditworthiness. And if you ask, it is more of a predictor in the case of how someone is going to pay back than not. Everyone seems to forget that a lender is in business to make money. And when they loan out money, there entire goal is to get that money back(preferably with interest). And that is what Fico does, it predicts the level at which someone will pay back a loan.
A credit analyst is the individual who looks at the employment, pay history, income, etc. Factors which are beyond a score.
@HiLine wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
So there is no benefit to your score when you simply pay a collection.I can understand the logic behind this. Even when you pay a collection, you have already defaulted on your debt, and since the whole point of FICO scores is predicting your probability of defaulting, it should not matter whether you paid off a collection. It is whether there is a collection that matters.
Say what? The whole purpose of FICO score IS predicting your probability of defaulting, and that's it. The fact that you decided to take care of an obligation that you already had gives you zero brownie points. From a "personal banking relationship" standpoint I can see your point that the individual eventual paid, but again, the entire debate is that the lender was stiffed when they were looking to get their money back.
I say, look at it this way. Y
You have a family member, a brother, sister, cousin or uncle who is in a tight spot. They ask you to loan them xxx dollars,say $5,000. And they will pay you back the money with their tax refund in two weeks(they've shown proof that a tax refund of that amount or higher has been processed and the "check is in the mail). Two weeks goes by, and your dear family member gives you a sob story of they are gonna miss their due date. A year and a half later they come up with your money. They hand you the full amount. Now, here is the $5,000 question. What is the likelihood of you lending to them again in six months to a year when they are in financial straits again? Do this, and you will answer the question of the banks/lenders.
The newest FICO score is more predictive than prior scores and has significantly changed how collections are scored.
1. The latest FICO 9 score is more predictive of default than prior versions.
2. The new FICO 9 scores completely ignore paid collections but still count unpaid collections very negatively.
Now it is obvious that paid collections are still negative even if less negative than unpaid ones but the fact they were paid reduces their negativity substantially or this change would not have been made. Part of this is covered through other negatives. Bank card chargeoffs are reported for 7 years and it is only the associated paid collection that is removed from the new FICO score. OTOH, collections from things like traffic tickets, medical collections, or late library fees will no longer affect credit scores at all if paid.
@Anonymous wrote:
That's another thing I don't understand about fico.
Why do they allow lenders to use old fico versions?
I read it will take a very long time for lenders to update to the new version. If they created a new version to be a more fair representation of the borrower then what's the point if lenders don't use it.
In many ways it is similar to why so many businesses still use Windows XP. Banks don't just use a FICO score. They combine scores with other information they have including possibly using some data from consumer reports that isn't used for FICO. Examples include income (which is not directly in reports but can be inferred and is in applications) and employer history.
Banks are conservative by nature.
New FICO scores may be more predictive used alone but when combined with other data in the bank's customer base it may not be as good since those algorithms were developed with an earlier version of FICO scores.
So what banks do is test new scores against their historical consumers, adjust their algorithms, then slowly cut in a small number of apps randomly selected to see if they perform better than the older system. If so eventually they will cut in the newer scores but this can take many years before most credit decisions use the new FICO.
Mortgage apps are even slower. FICO scores are designed to be predictive only over the next 2 years. Mortgage undewriting has a much lionger view so they collect a great deal of data on each consumer then factor in FICO scores to make a lending decision. This is watched for many more years. Essentially long enough that homeowner equity will rise enough so that the loan risk is a fraction of what it was at the time the loan was originated. That's why most mortgages are originated using decade old algorithms.
OTOH, mortgage securitization makes heavy use of newer models because pricing them is dynamic and based on relatively short term performance. Also, mortgage securitization does not have access to the mortgagee's detailed financials so the most accurate scoring is more appropriate.
@cashnocredit wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
That's another thing I don't understand about fico.
Why do they allow lenders to use old fico versions?
I read it will take a very long time for lenders to update to the new version. If they created a new version to be a more fair representation of the borrower then what's the point if lenders don't use it.In many ways it is similar to why so many businesses still use Windows XP. Banks don't just use a FICO score. They combine scores with other information they have including possibly using some data from consumer reports that isn't used for FICO. Examples include income (which is not directly in reports but can be inferred and is in applications) and employer history.
Banks are conservative by nature.
New FICO scores may be more predictive used alone but when combined with other data in the bank's customer base it may not be as good since those algorithms were developed with an earlier version of FICO scores.
So what banks do is test new scores against their historical consumers, adjust their algorithms, then slowly cut in a small number of apps randomly selected to see if they perform better than the older system. If so eventually they will cut in the newer scores but this can take many years before most credit decisions use the new FICO.
Mortgage apps are even slower. FICO scores are designed to be predictive only over the next 2 years. Mortgage undewriting has a much lionger view so they collect a great deal of data on each consumer then factor in FICO scores to make a lending decision. This is watched for many more years. Essentially long enough that homeowner equity will rise enough so that the loan risk is a fraction of what it was at the time the loan was originated. That's why most mortgages are originated using decade old algorithms.
OTOH, mortgage securitization makes heavy use of newer models because pricing them is dynamic and based on relatively short term performance. Also, mortgage securitization does not have access to the mortgagee's detailed financials so the most accurate scoring is more appropriate.
I would go one step further. Banks pay for the privilege of the score model they use and they build a system around it. They pay for advanced simulators and other items. If they switch models, before it's proved, it's counter productive and not cost effective. What lenders currently use works. Just because a new model comes out, it doesn't mean it's more predictive or accurate for the lender's current situation (look at all the people who regreted Windows Vista).
As consumers, we want whatever model shows us in the best light, but lenders need whatever saves them the most money while insuring that they approve enough customers to still make a profit.
Exactly. Banks have to make sure any new score fits in with their own experience. Improved scoring algorithms mean the possibility of lending to more people at the same risk level but they have to validate scoring against their own customers which don't typically match the wide universe of people scored by a generic algorithm. No bank will risk a change that could result in unforseen losses as those executives that made the change will be out on the street. So it takes time.