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New Account Penalties

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Contributor

New Account Penalties

I have gotten 4 revolving accounts in the past 9 months - Discover It in February, AMEX in July and Citi DC and Apple Card in August.  I've lost 5-8 points across the bureaus on my FICO8 from my most recent accounts - will I gain any of that back before the youngest one turns 6 months or oldest turns 1 year in February 2021? My AAoA is 1y3m, AoOA 3y1m, AoORA 9m (Discover), and AoYRA 1 m (Citi and Apple). My utilization is low (4%) but I haven't had a chance to implement AZEO as three of the cards just started reporting.  What is a typical amount of points gained for a clean/thin/young/new account score card going from low utilization to AZEO?

Fico8 1/20:
Fico8 8/20:
AU:
6 REPLIES 6
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Super Contributor

Re: New Account Penalties


@ChemE_Bear wrote:

I have gotten 4 revolving accounts in the past 9 months - Discover It in February, AMEX in July and Citi DC and Apple Card in August.  I've lost 5-8 points across the bureaus on my FICO8 from my most recent accounts - will I gain any of that back before the youngest one turns 6 months or oldest turns 1 year in February 2021? My AAoA is 1y3m, AoOA 3y1m, AoORA 9m (Discover), and AoYRA 1 m (Citi and Apple). My utilization is low (4%) but I haven't had a chance to implement AZEO as three of the cards just started reporting.  What is a typical amount of points gained for a clean/thin/young/new account score card going from low utilization to AZEO?


@ChemE_Bear Looks like you just switched  scorecards to a mature scorecard at three years oldest account on 8. 

you will see some points as your AoORA hits thresholds, as well as your AoYA and AAoA. And as you know, you will get points when you experience scorecard reassignment at 12 months AoYRA. 

when you say low utilization to AZEO, that's kind a hard to answer because it depends on a variety of factors, revolving balance, utilization change, and number/percentage of revolvers with a balance change. But you would be in a mature scorecard I believe on all versions. 

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 2 of 7
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Contributor

Re: New Account Penalties


@Birdman7 wrote:

@ChemE_Bear wrote:

I have gotten 4 revolving accounts in the past 9 months - Discover It in February, AMEX in July and Citi DC and Apple Card in August.  I've lost 5-8 points across the bureaus on my FICO8 from my most recent accounts - will I gain any of that back before the youngest one turns 6 months or oldest turns 1 year in February 2021? My AAoA is 1y3m, AoOA 3y1m, AoORA 9m (Discover), and AoYRA 1 m (Citi and Apple). My utilization is low (4%) but I haven't had a chance to implement AZEO as three of the cards just started reporting.  What is a typical amount of points gained for a clean/thin/young/new account score card going from low utilization to AZEO?


@ChemE_Bear Looks like you just switched  scorecards to a mature scorecard at three years oldest account on 8. 

you will see some points as your AoORA hits thresholds, as well as your AoYA and AAoA. And as you know, you will get points when you experience scorecard reassignment at 12 months AoYRA. 

when you say low utilization to AZEO, that's kind a hard to answer because it depends on a variety of factors, revolving balance, utilization change, and number/percentage of revolvers with a balance change. But you would be in a mature scorecard I believe on all versions. 


Thanks as always for your helpful response.  The thresholds for the AAoA are in 6 month increments, correct?  So I should see some points at AAoA 1y6m? Right now I'm also wondering approximately how much I will gain going from this:

Discover - 0/$2000

AMEX - $331/$13,400

Apple - $938/$5000

Citi - $15/$8000

Chase (AU) - $287/$8500

 

to something like

 

Discover - 0/$2000

AMEX - 0/$13,400

Apple - $500/$5000

Citi - 0/$8000

Chase (AU) - $10/$8500

Fico8 1/20:
Fico8 8/20:
AU:
Message 3 of 7
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Super Contributor

Re: New Account Penalties


@ChemE_Bear wrote:

@Birdman7 wrote:

@ChemE_Bear wrote:

I have gotten 4 revolving accounts in the past 9 months - Discover It in February, AMEX in July and Citi DC and Apple Card in August.  I've lost 5-8 points across the bureaus on my FICO8 from my most recent accounts - will I gain any of that back before the youngest one turns 6 months or oldest turns 1 year in February 2021? My AAoA is 1y3m, AoOA 3y1m, AoORA 9m (Discover), and AoYRA 1 m (Citi and Apple). My utilization is low (4%) but I haven't had a chance to implement AZEO as three of the cards just started reporting.  What is a typical amount of points gained for a clean/thin/young/new account score card going from low utilization to AZEO?


@ChemE_Bear Looks like you just switched  scorecards to a mature scorecard at three years oldest account on 8. 

you will see some points as your AoORA hits thresholds, as well as your AoYA and AAoA. And as you know, you will get points when you experience scorecard reassignment at 12 months AoYRA. 

when you say low utilization to AZEO, that's kind a hard to answer because it depends on a variety of factors, revolving balance, utilization change, and number/percentage of revolvers with a balance change. But you would be in a mature scorecard I believe on all versions. 


Thanks as always for your helpful response.  The thresholds for the AAoA are in 6 month increments, correct?  So I should see some points at AAoA 1y6m? Right now I'm also wondering approximately how much I will gain going from this:

Discover - 0/$2000

AMEX - $331/$13,400

Apple - $938/$5000

Citi - $15/$8000

Chase (AU) - $287/$8500

 

to something like

 

Discover - 0/$2000

AMEX - 0/$13,400

Apple - $500/$5000

Citi - 0/$8000

Chase (AU) - $10/$8500


@ChemE_Bear There is a 1.5 year AAoA threshold on young scorecards; I do not know if it exists on mature scorecards. It's likely there aren't any til at least 2 years on mature cards, but I really don't know for sure.

 

Yes we have typically found them at 6 month increments either year or half year marks, even though age is measured in months. 

AoORA seems much more important than AAoA, or AoOA (when they are different), especially on young cards; I'm not sure I'm not sure about AAoRA, but I know it factors. 


Unfortunately, I don't know if that same weighting is going to apply to a mature card. There I believe AAoRA is more important than AAoA, and I don't believe AoOA relevant after you are mature, so AoORA I'd watch. 

As for your question I think you'll pass one revolving balance threshold, that might be worth a few points. 

Do you know whether the authorized user account is counting or is flagged by the anti-abuse portion of the algorithm?

 

Assuming it is counting, your doing the optimal setup. You're going from 75% of primary revolvers with a balance to 25%, that should be good for some points on TU and EQ, but probably not EX. 

As far as utilization, I think you're already as low as you can get for points. 

The above analysis was based on version 8. As far as 542 goes, you would go from 80% of revolvers with a balance to 40%, so you'll still be leaving some points on the table there; you'd wanna zero out the authorized user account and go to 20%, IF you're optimizing the mortgage scores. 

Hope this is helpful. 

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 4 of 7
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Super Contributor

Re: New Account Penalties

@ChemE_Bear by the way what does your installment history look like?

 

you're great for number of cards, because you can hit the lowest threshold for the mortgage scores and for version 8, so scorewise you don't need any more cards unless you just want to become thick, which has its advantages. All you Gotta do is sit back and garden and watch it go up!

 

And to be honest, I don't know whether installment accounts count toward thickness. If they do, you could potentially already be thick. Your awards and penalties may tell us though because they will be larger on a thin scorecard.

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 5 of 7
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Contributor

Re: New Account Penalties

For installment accounts I have one auto loan, closed with perfect payment history and two open student loan accounts with perfect payment history but I owe ~94% of the principal on both of those because I recently graduated.  I lost about 5-8 points for each new account in the past couple of months, not sure if that indicates thick or thin.  I haven't tried to zero out the AU account to see if it is counting or not, I will in the next month or so to check that. I am not looking to optimize mortgage scores right now but may apply for an auto loan in 3-6 months so wanted to optimize as much as possible for that (current FICO Experian Auto Score 2: 763 Auto Score 8: 742) and just interested in optimizing all of my scores in general.

Fico8 1/20:
Fico8 8/20:
AU:
Message 6 of 7
Highlighted
Super Contributor

Re: New Account Penalties


@ChemE_Bear wrote:

For installment accounts I have one auto loan, closed with perfect payment history and two open student loan accounts with perfect payment history but I owe ~94% of the principal on both of those because I recently graduated.  I lost about 5-8 points for each new account in the past couple of months, not sure if that indicates thick or thin.  I haven't tried to zero out the AU account to see if it is counting or not, I will in the next month or so to check that. I am not looking to optimize mortgage scores right now but may apply for an auto loan in 3-6 months so wanted to optimize as much as possible for that (current FICO Experian Auto Score 2: 763 Auto Score 8: 742) and just interested in optimizing all of my scores in general.


@ChemE_Bear yeah those were changing in ages and are not enough to be indicative.

 

But here's what you need to know from what you said. You need to know whether your lender is going to pull a 542, or a 542 auto, or version 8, or version 8 auto, etc.

 

If they are going to pull a 542 variant, you want the authorized user account zeroed. If they are not pulling a 542 variant, you want AU to have a small balance if it is in fact counting. If it's not counting it doesn't matter on 8 & 9.

For a collection of our current FICO scoring wisdom, updated as we learn, read the following. Watch the revision dates on the bottom of the first 8 posts as they are regularly updated: Link to Scoring Primer.


RIP:

Oldest/average age varies by bureau. Estimates above.


Updated Oct 2020, unless otherwise noted.

(Forgive typos, mobile.)(Everything said is Just IMHO.)

In order to better answer your questions and record your DPs, please provide your profile stats: Any baddies? Severity and recency? (clean/dirty), Number of accounts, both open and closed on CRs (thick/thin), AoOA? (Mature/young), AOYRA-Age of Youngest Revolving Account (new accounts/no new accounts)? Open/closed loan on CR?
For example, mine is clean/thick/mature/new account, with open loan on record.
If you don't know where you fall, just detail any baddies, your number of open and closed accounts, AoOA, AOYRA and whether you have a loan on record to start.

For utilization questions, list individual and aggregate utilizations, revolving and installment, please.
Message 7 of 7
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