@sto0pyd wrote:Since FICO 9 is gaining popularity with my main credit unions, does anyone know how the new model works in terms of utilization? I tried searching through the forum and couldn't find anything. Does the < 30% utilization apply to your aggregate limit, or to just one card? When do you start losing points?
@Basically, I have ~280k in revolving with 0% utilization. I received an offer to use one of my cards @ 0% for 12 months with no transaction fee. I'm about to spend ~$7k to help a family member out (already regretting the decision, but I'll be OK). Instead of using my savings for the family loan, I figured why not use the 0% offer and use the money I get back every month to pay the balance down. The card I want to get the advance from has a limit of $22k, so the balance would be close to the 30% threshold but would still be ~2% of the overall available credit. This would also be the only card carrying a balance.
In my opinion FICO 9 responds similarly to FICO 8 in terms of revolving utilization, but is even more sensitive to it.
@sto0pyd wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@sto0pyd wrote:Since FICO 9 is gaining popularity with my main credit unions, does anyone know how the new model works in terms of utilization? I tried searching through the forum and couldn't find anything. Does the < 30% utilization apply to your aggregate limit, or to just one card? When do you start losing points?
Basically, I have ~280k in revolving with 0% utilization. @I received an offer to use one of my cards @ 0% for 12 months with no transaction fee. I'm about to spend ~$7k to help a family member out (already regretting the decision, but I'll be OK). Instead of using my savings for the family loan, I figured why not use the 0% offer and use the money I get back every month to pay the balance down. The card I want to get the advance from has a limit of $22k, so the balance would be close to the 30% threshold but would still be ~2% of the overall available credit. This would also be the only card carrying a balance.
Responding to blue above:
Total or aggregate utilization counts all your credit limits together. For total utilization you begin losing FICO points when you cross 8.99% into 9.0%.
Individual utilization looks only at each card and its limit by itself. Some people have been unable to see a scoring loss even when their individual U is as high as 48.9% (as long as their total U is low). The general consensus is that < 29% is safe for a zero point penalty.
Responding to green above:
When you say that you have 0% utilization, do you means that all of your cards are reporting $0? If so, you are being penalized by FICO. Probably about 20 points. This penalty goes away if you allow one card to report a balance of at least a few dollars.
As far as the FICO 8 vs. 9 distinction, in both models all of the above is true. Also in both models, the scoring penalties are termporary -- they vanish once your CC balances change (i.e. to the recommended low but positive util). Because they are temporary, it probably isn't worth worrying about them, given your general tendency to have low util most months.
PS. Nice responses by ABCD.
Thank you all! Based on the summary, I have 0% utilization, but in reality, I had 1 account reporting a small balance of $34. From my last report, aggregate limit was at $269,700. I'm wondering if I'm getting penalized for this... The reason for my question is because I've been pampering my credit ever since I've started rebuilding from 3 years ago. Even though I have no major purchases coming up, it's just a bummer to see scores take a dip.
@Anonymous far as my FICO 9 score, Equifax (NFCU) has it recorded at 739; Experian (San Diego County CU) @ 718.
No, if you're reporting a $34 balance you're good.
@Credit_Manager wrote:The FICO GOAT also published the only 3 consumer reports - among other credit report scenarios - that generated perfect FICO and perfect Vantage scores across every credit bureau simulanteously. According to credit expert and former FICO employee John Ulzheimer, he's never seen anyone obtain the same FICO scores acorss every bureau.
Google the following to see the full credit report details, a bequest from the GOAT to USA and world citizens:
Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion Highest Scoring Consumer Credit Reports Shared Through Public Bequest from FICO Minister David E. Howe
Scores of 850 are not that unusual - even 850's across the board on Classic Fico 8 and/or Classic Fico 9 are reported periodically on the forum.
As I recall between 0.4% to 0.6% of the scores reported were 850 in 2014. Based on a link provided on a MyFico thread a couple months ago, it appears this percentage has increased 3 to 4 fold as of this year. Given this we now have more than 1 in 100 consumers with an 850 score - although many may not know it. Of these, I'd expect 25% have 850 Fico 8 scores across all three CRAs and an equal percentage have 850 Fico 9 across all three CRAs.
If 0.1% of the scored population has triple-double 850 scores, then out of 100 million profiles there would be 100,000 profiles with triple-double 850s. That's quite a few. If you restrict the population to "well seasoned" profiles, say 10 million and keep the 0.1% level we are still talking 10,000 consumers with triple-double 850s.
With VantageScore 2.0, a perfect 990 score is more commonplace than a Fico 8, 850. That changed with VantagScore 3.0. I have not seen a VS3 850 and don't know if it's possible. Highest score I have seen reported from CK, CS and VantageScore white papers is 839. [ANYONE HERE EVER RECEIVE A VS3 SCORE ABOVE 839?]
I have not checked the link to review details but the mention of John Ulzhelmer suggests the data may be from the VS 2.0 era and include Fico 8 but not Fico 9.
Anyway - carrying a balance is not a credit score booster with Fico but reporting a balance is important. If you PIF after statement cut date but before due date, a balance reports to the CRAs. However, that is not carrying a balance.
*** I checked out the reference mentioned in a previous post. Below is a pasted excerpt. This "feat" is overblown and certainly not unique to Howe. Frankly, someone ignorant with credit scoring algorithms can realize those scores. ***
Frankly, this is all hype and rather misleading.
I had 850s and 990s back in early 2014 - without having any "hidden" knowledge and, at the time, no real understanding of the credit scoring algorithms. All it took was sound credit management - no magic. It's all about fundamentals. I never carry a balance on credit cards but I do allow all charges to report naturally and then pay balances in full before due date. Since joining MyFico I have done extensive research and testing to the point where I am comfortable offering conditional advise based on 1st hand experiences supported by research (Fico presentations, VantageScore white papers, Experian database score distribution tables and other MyFico posters that share personal experiences with supporting data). Since impact of changes in scoring factors is influenced by assigned scorecard, advice is inherently conditional.
It is a disservice to suggest that carrying a balance is important or even beneficial for either Fico or VantageScore. That is a falsehood.
It appears your message has changed fro carrying a balance on revolving accounts to having an open installment loan with a balance. The two are mutually exclusive as installment loans are separate from revolving credit as factors in scoring.
There are those with 1st hand knowledge and share findings objectively without an agenda and then there are those who don't.
