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Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

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GregB
Valued Contributor

Re: Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

Your FICO score is based upon your history of paying your bills and your responsible use of credit. Income is almost unrelated to that, perhaps no correlation at all. In my experience, a recent large increase in income usually results in credit problems for people.

 

Most credit applications look at many factors before granting you a loan. Income is usually factored into those decisions along with assets, equity, etc.

 

People who think that more income will solve their money problems are frequently headed for more money problems - Not including those that have had a recent job loss or big pay decrease.

Message 11 of 24
haulingthescoreup
Moderator Emerita

Re: Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

I agree --any responsible lender will look at your income in addition to your credit report.

 

I can't even begin to imagine the unholy mess that would result if our income was included on our credit reports. When many of us can't get the CRA's to spell out names correctly or enter the right apartment number or report the proper balance on a Hammers'R'Us store card, what do you think that they would do with salary info??? Smiley Surprised Imagine changing jobs, or getting a raise, or picking up an additional part-time job, or (shudder) being self-employed.

 

Income shouldn't be on a credit report. It doesn't predict future credit risk (which is what credit scores are all about, anyway), and it should be evaluated in addition to credit history.

* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Message 12 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

I disagree. Home lending and car loans are typically subject to an income check. How about other cards? Does your department store check your income? No, they don't. The one thing income determines is stability AND ability to pay. Income verification is crucial when it comes to lending. Although you wouldn't know it by the housing mess we're in today...

Message 13 of 24
haulingthescoreup
Moderator Emerita

Re: Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

Of course income verification is crucial. I didn't say that it wasn't. Look at what all those no-doc mortgages did to us.

 

What I'm saying is that income doesn't belong on a credit report. It should be separately submitted and verified.

 

If you read here long enough, you'll see plenty of posts from people richer than stink who have completely mishandled their credit. And meanwhile, we have military members, retirees, and others without much income and stellar credit history. They know they don't have money to burn, and they handle it very responsibly.

 

Yes, it's stupid for lenders to not check income. In fact, the Credit Card ACT requires lenders to determine (in some manner or another) ability to repay debt from loan products, including credit cards. And even before the act passed, many lenders did so, especially credit unions like PenFed and Alliant that require applicants to fax in pay stubs and even tax returns.

 

But that is separate from a credit report, which is your history of managing credit.

 

Proof of income predicts ability to pay. Credit history predicts willingness to pay. Two different, and equally important, factors.

* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Message 14 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

I use two credit cards. One is a Sears Gold MC (had that since 1982) which allows me to get nice rewards. And I also have a Macy's Premier VISA card (which also allows me to get nice rewards, discounts, etc.). I've had a Macy's card since they were called Bamberger's. I also have a Nordstrom card, which I barely use. Both the Macy's and Sears limits are in the 5 figures. I applied for a Dillard's card recently and got rejected. Why? Two reasons: I don't have any car loans or mortgage payments (bought my car for cash and home was paid off). So...dinged for NOT having any revolving loans. Dinged again for not having applied for any credit recently.

 

You damned if you, damned if you don't.

 

So, having two long term competitive store credit cards, no revolving loans such as car and mortgage actually hurt me. Unbelievable. And my FICO score was in the mid 700s. Go figure. I use both my rewards cards and pay them off each month in full.

Message 15 of 24
haulingthescoreup
Moderator Emerita

Re: Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

Well, OK. We showed you how to fix the score issue earlier in this thread.

 

Again, we have members here with only two or three cards, NO open loans, and NO open mortgages, and their scores are very, very high, either side of 800.

 

As always, it is your choice as to whether you want to use the tips provided here.

 

As for Dillard's, I think they were nuts to not have accepted you. But that's a lender decision, not a FICO scoring issue.

 

Good luck to you in whatever you decide. Smiley Happy

* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Message 16 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

I guess the "fix" is to game the system.

Message 17 of 24
CrdtLrnr
New Contributor

Re: Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

Yup--game the system based on changing (improving) credit management habits using the knowledge gained from this website over time.  Smiley Wink

Message 18 of 24
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

Just a couple of thoughts...

 

1. Paid in Full... One problem with including PIF in the reports to the credit bureaus is that some people could be playing a shell game. Some people might pay off cards in full each month, but accomplish it by borrowing from Card B to pay off Card A just before Card A reports. Then borrow from Card A to pay Card B in full just before Card B reports. Card A and Card B both show $ 0.00 balance but only because of game playing.  

 

I have 2 credit cards that I pay off each month just before they report and my primary card (6.25% and 1% cash back) that I am paying down the balance. I notice that if I pay an extra $1,000 on the primary card it does not help my score. If the balance stays down a couple of months, then I see an increase in my score. This leads me to believe that the formula is slanted as if a large payment is not a "real" payment... Either the money was borrowed from some other source, or, the person paid too much on the card and will have to increase the balance next month to compensate for the large payment. (Yes, the "shoe fits". Sometimes, my budget is tight because I paid too much on the card the previous month.)

 

2. I believe that it helps to have a small balance report on the cards.  

About every 2 or three months, I allow one or the other of the first two cards to report a small balance. This seems to help my score. If cards always report a zero balance, they may be sitting in a block of ice in your freezer...  I think I read somewhere in the MyFico site ... maybe that 15 page explanation of how scores are calulated... that the score is based on how you use your credit and talks about unused credit cards. With zero balance every month, it appears card is not being used. 

 

Here is the notation from MyFico on my most recent Equifax score. It was in the "Helping your score" column.

 

You've shown recent use of credit cards.

 

Your FICO score evaluates your mix of credit cards [?], installment loans and mortgages. People who demonstrate responsible use of different types of credit are generally less risky to lenders. You helped your FICO score by showing recent use of a credit card.

3. The other item is that you need to understand when your cards report to the credit bureaus. Two of my cards (#2 and #3) report the balance to Transunion on the date the statement is printed. The third card reports the balance to Transunion as of 2 days before the payment is due!  If I want the third card to report a zero balance, I have to be sure my payment is applied at least 2 days before the payment is due. (On-line is really nice for tracking this.) 

 

I recently got my Experian report from Annualcreditreport.com, and the reported balances are all over the place... The cards are reporting to Experian on a different date (therefore different amount) than to Transunion. ..... (sigh) OH, WELL...

 

Soon I hope to have my new mortgage. Then I will pay my bills before the due dates, keep my balances down, and let the dust settle wherever it settles.... 

 

But as someone else said earlier in this string... for now, I have to play the game.

 

 

 

Message 19 of 24
haulingthescoreup
Moderator Emerita

Re: Paying off credit cards every month is a negative

 


@Anonymous wrote:

Just a couple of thoughts...

 

1. Paid in Full... One problem with including PIF in the reports to the credit bureaus is that some people could be playing a shell game. Some people might pay off cards in full each month, but accomplish it by borrowing from Card B to pay off Card A just before Card A reports. Then borrow from Card A to pay Card B in full just before Card B reports. Card A and Card B both show $ 0.00 balance but only because of game playing.  

 

But lenders can tell when the overall balance stays the same. They're well aware of BT's. In fact, they'll see the balance increase, because there's a balance transfer fee that is added to the balance. Smiley Wink

 

I have 2 credit cards that I pay off each month just before they report and my primary card (6.25% and 1% cash back) that I am paying down the balance. I notice that if I pay an extra $1,000 on the primary card it does not help my score. If the balance stays down a couple of months, then I see an increase in my score. This leads me to believe that the formula is slanted as if a large payment is not a "real" payment... Either the money was borrowed from some other source, or, the person paid too much on the card and will have to increase the balance next month to compensate for the large payment. (Yes, the "shoe fits". Sometimes, my budget is tight because I paid too much on the card the previous month.)

 

There's no "slant" in the formula, although I can see why you might think this. One part of the formula looks at the actual dollar amount of balances, but the more important part looks at util, or revolving utilization, which is balances owed divided by credit limit. These appear to run in percentage ranges, like 0-9%, 10-19%, 20-49%, and so forth. (Endless argument about what the ranges are!) So you can pay $1000 on a balance, and your total util changes from say 18% to 14%, and so you're in the same percentage range, and there's no score increase for improved util. Then you pay $10 another month, and you go from say 20% to 19%, and bingo, a score increase for a tiny payment.

 

2. I believe that it helps to have a small balance report on the cards.  

About every 2 or three months, I allow one or the other of the first two cards to report a small balance. This seems to help my score. If cards always report a zero balance, they may be sitting in a block of ice in your freezer...  I think I read somewhere in the MyFico site ... maybe that 15 page explanation of how scores are calulated... that the score is based on how you use your credit and talks about unused credit cards. With zero balance every month, it appears card is not being used. 

 

Here is the notation from MyFico on my most recent Equifax score. It was in the "Helping your score" column.

 

You've shown recent use of credit cards.

 

Your FICO score evaluates your mix of credit cards [?], installment loans and mortgages. People who demonstrate responsible use of different types of credit are generally less risky to lenders. You helped your FICO score by showing recent use of a credit card.

 

It's not necessarily whether a balance is reported. It can also be whether the card was used during the month. This doesn't show on the reports that consumers can get, but it seems to be reported. It's well established that if ALL cards (two, in your case) report $0, scores almost always drop. That's one reason why many people wind up getting three or four cards, because trying to control the balances reported with just one or two cards can make you crazy. (You also can get dinged for having too many cards with balances. P)

 

3. The other item is that you need to understand when your cards report to the credit bureaus. Two of my cards (#2 and #3) report the balance to Transunion on the date the statement is printed. The third card reports the balance to Transunion as of 2 days before the payment is due!  If I want the third card to report a zero balance, I have to be sure my payment is applied at least 2 days before the payment is due. (On-line is really nice for tracking this.) 

 

I recently got my Experian report from Annualcreditreport.com, and the reported balances are all over the place... The cards are reporting to Experian on a different date (therefore different amount) than to Transunion. ..... (sigh) OH, WELL...

 

Soon I hope to have my new mortgage. Then I will pay my bills before the due dates, keep my balances down, and let the dust settle wherever it settles.... 

 

But as someone else said earlier in this string... for now, I have to play the game.

 


 

* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Message 20 of 24
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