Secured Share Loan (NFCU SSL) value?

[DONZI]

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@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

You didn't mention how many bank cards you have open.

Opps, it's in my sig 

You've already achieved significant credit history regardless based on the aging metrics you referenced. 

Are there edge cases where one can help? Sure. If someone has borderline low 600s type scores and is trying to hit a scoring benchmark with their FICO MMS for a mortgage app, they haven't opened any accounts in the last 18 months and have no open installment loan perhaps the SSL would bump their score over the threshold point that they are looking for. That edge case scenario certianly doesn't apply to you.

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Hmm. Somewhat a tangent into non-score area, but I don't have any specific plans right now to apply for a loan, but might want to do that in the next 2-3 years. In such a case, I gather that score is something, but not really relevant beyond a certain threshold.

Is there any benefit to being, say FICO8 780-810 Vs 811-850?  ..and/or for general population of bank cards?

[DONZI]

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@Varsity_Lu wrote:

And they don't all report as gimmick loans, either.  I have one reporting as an auto loan which undoubtedly helps my profile as well as my score.

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Is that your NFCU SSL that shows as an auto loan?

Does a 'gimmick' loan actually report that fact or is it that it's obviously a hack by it's activity when UW looks at it?

[DONZI]

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@Patient957 wrote:

@DONZI 

10 times out of 10 people who get SSLs are glad they did.  100% satisfaction rate.

Only those who don't have them seem to be dissatisfied.

Also, they are becoming harder to get.  Navy is the only known source at this time, and if they stop offering them, the opportunity is gone.  So get it while you still can.

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While I do like to see the score go up, it's reasonable to point out it's role as @BrutalBodyShots mentions. Score alone being something like a great body with the face of a monster, is possible.

With that in mind, I think my score & profile is probably fine. There are certainly limitations due to my profile and score -- my spend will never get me an invite to a centurion card or a literal uncapped spend limit, and that's fine too.

So far it seems @ best case, a 40 jump really won't do much more than put me closer to 850 and that is all.

The SSL seems like a great opportunity to see a score go up, but it's tangible value I remain uncertain about. If somehow it is in fact seen as a gimmick loan by any UW, then it's a wash.

On the other hand, if I am gated by FICO8 ~800 some way, and >800 is of value that's something to consider.

[Varsity_Lu]

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@DONZI wrote:

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@Varsity_Lu wrote:

And they don't all report as gimmick loans, either.  I have one reporting as an auto loan which undoubtedly helps my profile as well as my score.

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Is that your NFCU SSL that shows as an auto loan?

Does a 'gimmick' loan actually report that fact or is it that it's obviously a hack by it's activity when UW looks at it?

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I only have one SSL and it is with NFCU.  On Equifax it is listed as an installment loan with auto as the type.  On Experian it is just listed as a secure installment loan.  TransUnion lists it as a personal loan.  There is nothing on any of my reports that indicates it specifically as a SSL.  All of them list it as a $3,500 loan with a $61 monthly payment.

[Patient957]

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@DONZI wrote:

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@Patient957 wrote:

@DONZI 

10 times out of 10 people who get SSLs are glad they did.  100% satisfaction rate.

Only those who don't have them seem to be dissatisfied.

Also, they are becoming harder to get.  Navy is the only known source at this time, and if they stop offering them, the opportunity is gone.  So get it while you still can.

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While I do like to see the score go up, it's reasonable to point out it's role as @BrutalBodyShots mentions. Score alone being something like a great body with the face of a monster, is possible.

With that in mind, I think my score & profile is probably fine. There are certainly limitations due to my profile and score -- my spend will never get me an invite to a centurion card or a literal uncapped spend limit, and that's fine too.

So far it seems @ best case, a 40 jump really won't do much more than put me closer to 850 and that is all.

The SSL seems like a great opportunity to see a score go up, but it's tangible value I remain uncertain about. If somehow it is in fact seen as a gimmick loan by any UW, then it's a wash.

On the other hand, if I am gated by FICO8 ~800 some way, and >800 is of value that's something to consider.

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As discussed upthread, in some cases they report as secured loans.  Additionally, you have a young tradeline with a sub 10% B/L.  So based on those two reporting details, ubderwriters could conclude the loan is a gimmick.  But nobody has presented any evidence to support the theory that they actually do.  Just repeating the word "gimmick" over and over (and over and over) in every SSL thread doesn't make it fact.   Most or all of us with SSLs think they're helping us, but that's not hard evidence either.  So you have to make up your own mind. 

The Fico points you get are indisputable.  Are they valuable points?  Again, you get to make up your own mind.  But I don't buy for a second that underwriting algorithms treat 760s like 800+, all other things equal.  

[BrutalBodyShots]

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@Varsity_Lu wrote:

@BrutalBodyShots 

Just poking a little fun, that's all, with a little truth woven in there.   You don't actually know that they are ignored 90% of the time.  You are assuming that.  And they don't all report as gimmick loans, either.  I have one reporting as an auto loan which undoubtedly helps my profile as well as my score.  It's clear that you have your mind made up about SSLs and that's fine.  You are entitled to and I respect your view.  Just be careful when you make a claim like this, especially when it's more of your opinion than data.  That's all.

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It may help your score, but not your profile. If you can find me a single example of someone that wasn't approved for credit with the absence of a gimmick SSL and then suddenly was with one present, I'd gladly eat my words. Until then, it's not "opinion." I don't believe for a second that a lender looking at your profile that sees a $500 loan coded as "auto" loan is going to think your profile is any better than if it weren't there, even though yes, you may see a bump to some of your FICO scores. I didn't say that they all "report" as gimmick loans, just that they are handled that way for the reason I just stated.

[BrutalBodyShots]

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@Patient957 wrote:

10 times out of 10 people who get SSLs are glad they did.  100% satisfaction rate.

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Here's the problem though, @Patient957. The "100% satisfaction rate" is based more often than not on myth or things that don't matter. The satisfaction rate comes from seeing their FICO scores increase. The entire point is that the increase almost all the time doesn't matter when it comes to lending decisions. I gave an edge case where it could matter. Beyond that it almost never does. And, people think that these gimmick loans are needed in order to get a "real" loan when they aren't. So, they get a SSL, then in a year or two go for a real loan and are approved and claim "success!" because of the presence of the SSL, when the SSL isn't what was the catalyst for approval in the first place.

[BrutalBodyShots]

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@DONZI wrote:

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Is there any benefit to being, say FICO8 780-810 Vs 811-850?  ..and/or for general population of bank cards?

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Not if the profile in question is clean/thick/mature in both cases.

[BrutalBodyShots]

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@Patient957 wrote:

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But I don't buy for a second that underwriting algorithms treat 760s like 800+, all other things equal.  

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Of course not, because credit profile is King to score. Someone with just 1 credit card and 6 months of credit history with it can boast a 760+ score. They wouldn't be approved for a loan though, because their profile is lacking. Adding a gimmick loan wouldn't change that.

When I say "gimmick" loan, I'd like to clarify what I mean. Most people that go for a SSL go with one valued at $500. There are exceptions like yourself where people go with a greater amount; you said yours is $3500. Someone could go with a $25k SSL if they wanted to. The point is what when lenders/underwriters look at any given credit profile, a $500 SSL is going to stand out pretty quickly. Even if it doesn't specifically say secured, I'm sure you can understand how an underwriter would see far less value in that sort of loan over a "real" auto loan.

[Patient957]

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@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

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@Patient957 wrote:

10 times out of 10 people who get SSLs are glad they did.  100% satisfaction rate.

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Here's the problem though, @Patient957. The "100% satisfaction rate" is based more often than not on myth or things that don't matter. The satisfaction rate comes from seeing their FICO scores increase. The entire point is that the increase almost all the time doesn't matter when it comes to lending decisions. I gave an edge case where it could matter. Beyond that it almost never does. And, people think that these gimmick loans are needed in order to get a "real" loan when they aren't. So, they get a SSL, then in a year or two go for a real loan and are approved and claim "success!" because of the presence of the SSL, when the SSL isn't what was the catalyst for approval in the first place.

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It's a "problem" for you, I guess.  For me, it's just the satisfaction of being approved for every credit product I apply for.  Maybe the same would be true without the SSL.  But maybe not.