Update: FICO2 experiment (is it worth it?)

[Anonymous]

NEVER use a retail card for AZEO, it may react unpredictably and not in your favor! Also avoid cards with CLs over like 27K, as older algorithms exclude them.

Charge cards are ignored for utilization in all but FICO 98. So its counting as an account with a balance everywhere, but only toward utilization on EX2.

Please tell me you aren't doing AZEO with a retail!

[Anonymous]

It appears you are getting the no revolving bankcard balance penalty on EX8. It sees the AZE2, but no bankcard balance.

EX2 is rewarding the lesser # with a balance. The gain on EX2 isn't reduced cuz its seeing the AmEx as a bankcard balance. You may wear the penalty on EX2 when the AmEx goes to 0. Are you planning AZEO with a retail? Why?

Also, why did you expect a drop from EX8 at AZEO?

Need AZEO with a bankcard, preferably not CU either.

When is your app?

[calyx]

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@Anonymous wrote:

NEVER use a retail card for AZEO, it may react unpredictably and not in your favor! Also avoid cards with CLs over like 27K, as older algorithms exclude them.

Charge cards are ignored for utilization in all but FICO 98. So its counting as an account with a balance everywhere, but only toward utilization on EX2.

Please tell me you aren't doing AZEO with a retail!

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Haha!  I am.  I hadn't thought about it before, so I probably could have spared the AU the angst of me making him pay it to 0.
I decided that I'd see what happens.  I have another (Citi) card that closes the 8th that I don't typically use, so I thought I would chance seeing what happens with that retail.   If it's bad, I'll wait to app until after Citi posts, if it's not, I'll app sooner.

I'm not entirely sure FICO2 ignores my AMEX, because it's moved with my Amex reporting a 0 or not (it's limit is 31.5k - it's a BCP, so not one of the charge cards), but I guess I'll find out.

Synchrony is carrying the 0% balance, so that's why I was AZEOing with it, but, as I mentioned, I can always let another card report next week.  There's no real rush on the app (just before the 27th when the AU will report a balance again).

[calyx]

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@Anonymous wrote:

It appears you are getting the no revolving bankcard balance penalty on EX8. It sees the AZE2, but no bankcard balance.

EX2 is rewarding the lesser # with a balance. The gain on EX2 isn't reduced cuz its seeing the AmEx as a bankcard balance. You may wear the penalty on EX2 when the AmEx goes to 0. Are you planning AZEO with a retail? Why?

Also, why did you expect a drop from EX8 at AZEO?

Need AZEO with a bankcard, preferably not CU either.

When is your app?

---

^ To answer the expected drop - you pointed me to the thread that mentions that if the AU reports 0, FICO8 may not factor it into my score.    That drops a lot of age from my scoring.

I do not have the No revolving negative reason code showing (yet) - if I get it, it should be in the next couple of days when the AMEX reports to 0 - it's a revolver, not a traditional charge card.

And the only reasons for the retail AZEO is because that's the card carrying 0% financing that I am not willing to pay to 0 before its time (it's a SyncFinancial card).  If I lose points, I can always let a major bankcard report.   

[Anonymous]

I don’t remember the cut off; one of them is 35,000 and then there’s another one that’s just under 30K. EX2 maybe the 35K, maybe another member can chime in I don’t recall off the top of my head. But that’s just for utilization. It still counts towards number of revolvers with a balance.

Either way, after reading those threads about the no revolving penalty when the AU is zero, pretty sure that caused the drop on version 8. But since you’re worried about EX2 it doesn’t matter, it benefits you cause the lower number of accounts with a balance, so no worries. No, you did the right thing by having them pay to zero because you’re focusing on EX2. If you were worried about version 8 then yeah, you’d need to leave a balance on the AU, because yours counts. Look at the points you got on EX2 for one less account with a balance.

OK here’s the deal with retail in my experience. Typically, I get like half of the no revolving balance penalty. But that’s on version 8, I can’t tell you what it will do on EX2. I guess we’re about to find out!

The AmEx is counting for utilization and number of accounts with a balance for EX2, I believe. It’s probably the 35K cut off, so it’s probably counting for utilization there.

And it was late, I spoke wrong (although I realize now it’s a credit card so it’s irrelevant, but for future people reading I needed to correct it.):

“Charge cards are ignored for utilization in all but FICO 98. So its counting as an account with a balance everywhere, but only toward utilization on EX2.”

Was supposed to say:

“Charge cards are ignored for utilization in all but FICO 98. So its counting only as an account with a balance everywhere, but also toward utilization on EX2.”

No, to clarify, whenever the AU goes to zero the no revolving balance penalty is imposed. I’m pretty sure it does NOT take the AU out of consideration, so it would not affect your age. Regardless that’s just version 8. You’re AU counts full monty on EX2, and you don’t get the no revolving AU penalty on EX2, so you’re good. The only concern is how it will react with the retail card as the AZEO card.

Well, if you lose points for it, then we have to determine do you lose more points by using the retail or do you gain more points by having only one account with a balance.

Because going down to one revolver with a balance is going to give you a boost on EX2, but if it also gives you half of the no revolving penalty, we will have to see which gives you the better score.

[calyx]

Yeah, I agree - it should be interesting!    I figured that since I have a potential bankcard reporting next week (if I want it to), that it would be worth the risk to see what happens with that retail card    I'm going to be honest: My impatience will probably win out and even if I could get more points by getting that Citi to report, I'll cave and app anyway

And I TOTALLY misspoke when I said I expected a drop with AZEO - that was when I thought the last one to be paid was the AU (which would bring it to AZEO, though with the retail); but since AMEX reported on a different date last month, it threw off the order of reporting, but I never stopped thinking of the AU as my "last" card to pay    I'm still very grateful for you pointing out the AU to 0 FICO8 drop, though, otherwise I would spend my time banging my head trying to figure it out

Once I'm done with this little experiment, I'll also keep recording until my cards report 'naturally' just to watch the yoyo.  I don't know if it will help anyone, but after working to get FICO2 up, I have a perverse desire to watch it go back down (good thing I don't need to app for a mortgage).

[Anonymous]

First I slightly edited my above posts. OCD. LOL.

739 is where you’re at right now and that’s pretty decent and when that AMEX hits zero it will most likely be even higher. Is there a certain score that you need or just trying to get as high as we can to get the best we can? Or both?

You came along way from 703!!

[calyx]

No certain score - I'm just trying to maximize to make me look nice for SDFCU (since they use FICO2).

Since I hadn't planned on apping til I got to December anyway, it gave me the time to play, and now look where I am - documenting the heck out of everything - might as well have fun with it if I have to put the work in.    

Coincidentally - I just got a survey asking what would make me consider them for my primary financial institution, and I wasn't shy about what I wanted.   I don't know how closely they look at those surveys or if it'll get me a note in my file, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

[Anonymous]

I think you’ve done great! And your documentation will prove helpful to other members in the future.

And I think your score is pretty darn good especially considering EX2 is one of the hardest algorithms in my opinion.

Kudos to you for all the excellent work!

[calyx]

Thanks for your kind words @Anonymous 

And here we are:

Pretty sure we can confirm that FICO2 sees that AMEX with a 31500 limit (if that helps people figure out where those hard lines are)

FICO8 still sees my retail card (no 'no revolving' penalty), and I know retail isn't ideal, but at least FICO2 sees it and counts it.  I think it doesn't like the 2k balance, but I can live with the score

I will still keep updating it until my balances "settle."   I look forward to the HP, because I know that FICO2 really hates those.