Wamu incr fin rate based on FICO

[RobertEG]

WOW! This is probably one of the most enlightening threads on this forum.  They suck people in with a promised "guaranteed rate", and yet reserve the right to change the contract terms at THEIR sole discrection?  What kind of Rod Serling contract is that? A contract, in law, is a mutual agreement between the contracting parties, a meeting of the minds.  What you have stated is NOT a legal contract, in any stretch of the imagination.   Any contract of law that gives one contracting party the right to, at their sole discretion, to unilaterly change the terms is just not a valid contract.  Contact Law 101.

Message Edited by RobertEG on 04-12-2008 09:06 AM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 04-12-2008 09:08 AM

[Anonymous]

WOW! This is probably one of the most enlightening threads on this forum.  They suck people in with a promised "guaranteed rate", and yet reserve the right to change the contract terms at THEIR sole discrection?  What kind of Rod Serling contract is that? A contract, in law, is a mutual agreement between the contracting parties, a meeting of the minds.  What you have stated is NOT a legal contract, in any stretch of the imagination.   Any contract of law that gives one contracting party the right to, at their sole discretion, to unilaterly change the terms is just not a valid contract.  Contact Law 101.

Actually when you accept the card you are having a meeting of the minds.  Those are the terms that you sign up for, so those are the terms you get.  Is it right?  Is it good?  Is it ethical?  The answers to those questions are no.  But since when is it a tenent of law that a contract be right or ethical?  As long as the terms and conditions are there your bound by them.

Just my 2 pennies worth. 

Van

[Anonymous]

WAMU Will not Modify terms for actions with other creditors.

You have to mess up with them.  If they perform AA that is based on your credit report must notify you.

Message Edited by Timothy on 04-12-2008 09:59 AM

[RobertEG]

When one accepts a credit card offered with a "guaranteed rate," THAT is their offer, and the meeting of the mind intended to be conveyed to the consumer.  They make it clear that late payments or overlimits on the account terminate the "guarantee,"  but not unrelated factors, such as FICO score.

Good faith is an essential element of contract law, and has been in both common and statutory law for centuries.  What has each side been led to believe when entering a contract is the central issue in any legal proceeding.   

For a CCC to soliacit and grant credit with an advertised "guaranteed" rate, and then unilaterally decide to change the rate, is not good faith, in my opinion.  People enter iinto such contracts with the express promise of a guarantee.  What could be clearer to a consumer than the promise of a guarantee?

If some interpretation in their "Agreement" would somehow seem to give them such a right, it is still bad faith when viewed in terms of their proffered guarantee.  I am still awaiting someone to post language from any such Terms of Agreement that gives them the right to vioilate their offered guarantee.. 

It is ethically wrong, and ethics are essentail in contract law.

Message Edited by RobertEG on 04-12-2008 11:06 PM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 04-12-2008 11:14 PM

[haulingthescoreup]

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@haulingthescoreup wrote:

Just saw this sentence on a pre-approval form a different bank that came for one of my kids: "We reserve the right to change the APRs, fees, and other terms of the account at any time." This sentence appears 4 lines after the sentence that says, "Your introductory APR is fixed, meaning that the Introductory APR will not be changed during the introductory period." So much for "fixed."

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From my earlier post. I'd wager that this sentence, or a version thereof, is on every CC terms and conditions statement in America. How they pull it off, I don't know, but it's in there.

As Timothy said, WaMu won't ratejack just to imitate other companies' actions, but they will if they don't like how you handle your account, or your scores get too low, or if they see something on your credit reports that they don't like.

If for no other reason, this apparent freedom by the CCC's to do whatever they like, whenever they like is an excellent reason to not carry balances that you can't promptly pay off out of savings, etc. If they do this to you, and it irks you enough, you can immediately pay off your balance, give them the friendly one-finger salute, and take your business elsewhere.

[haulingthescoreup]

And here's a good place for me to chirp about the proposed Credit Cardholders' Bill of rights.

Credit Cardholders’ Bill of Rights

— Protects cardholders against arbitrary interest rate increases
— Prevents cardholders who pay on time from being unfairly penalized
— Protects cardholders from due date gimmicks
— Shields cardholders from misleading terms
— Empowers cardholders to set limits on their credit
— Requires card companies to fairly credit and allocate payments
— Prohibits card companies from imposing excessive fees on cardholders
— Prevents card companies from giving subprime credit cards to people who can’t afford them
— Requires Congress to provide better oversight of the credit card industry
— Contains no rate caps, fee setting, or price controls

One-page summary
Read the bill

Source and discussion: ConsumerMan article

Whether you support this bill or not, all of us as credit consumers ought to be aware of it and its provisions, and we should also be communicating with our US representatives. (I'm sure that many of them would like this to simply go away!) There are currently 89 co-sponsors of the bill. Here's how to reach your US representative:

Find your elected officials

I hope that some of you will take this opportunity to get involved with the political process. We elect these people; they might as well have to listen to us every now and then.

[MidnightVoice]

I thought this had been discussed at length earlier

As mentioned, South Dakota changed its laws to pull CCCs in and allow them to rip the rest of us off. Because of consumer backlash the one thing most of them seem to be avoiding now is UD. However, they get round that by looking at the Credit Score, with will probably drop if you default anywhere. They can do anything to you that you cannot stop them doing to you, and at the moment it is legal

So spend less than you earn

[Anonymous]

Thank you I will check my files.  Unfortunately, I don't believe I kept it.  But I will check. 

[RobertEG]

OK, my good FICO friends, YOU are right, and my trust in the law was WRONG!

I have finally isolated some language in one of my CC “Agreements” that I would like to share, as I fume and smoulder in my credit bunker!!!!

Here is the language in one of my Visa card “Agreements” :

“8. DEFAULT.  You will be in default if you fail to make any minimum payment when due.  You will also be in default if (a) your ability to repay us is materially reduced by a change in your employment, an increase in your obligations, bankruptcy or insolvency proceedings involving you, death, or your failure to abide by this Agreement, (b) you break any promise you have made to us under this Agreement or any other Agreement you have with us, (c) any statement you have made in this Agreement, in connection with this Agreement, or in connection with any other Agreement you have with us is not true, or (d) we should otherwise feel insecure in receiving payment of the Account balance for whatever reason……”  KABOOM!!!!!!!

… end of feces quote…..

WOW!  WOW!!!  TRIPLE WOW!!!!

I CRING at the absolute perception on their right to insert totally unitlateral, self-serving, and unspecified terms such as “increase in obligation”  (to whom, how much?), and their ridiculous legal reference to their “insecurity!!!!!”  Not terms of law!!!  Looking their terms by clause, I refer to:

Paragraph 8.(a), Assume I retire, and my income thus drops?  Am I then in default for retirement due to my income drop, even though I no longer have to commute, pay to eat out each day, launder five white shirts a week, etc, etc?  And as for  the mutually rediculous “increase in my obligations” clause that follows,  I have NO idea what that means!!!!  PERIOD!!!  Does this mean that if the balance on any account under my name increases in any month, even though within my CL, and I paid in time, that I have “increased my obligations,” and thus defaulted on their card????  If my home phone bill goes up, or I decide to buy a new car,  is that an increase in my obligations that triggers my default?

But the above clause is just the verbage that initially got my blood heated.  Below is the verbage in a followng clause of the “Agreement” that then sent my blood to BOILING!!! :

Paragraph 8.  (d) “we should otherwise feel insecure in receiving payment of the Account balance for whatever reason…”

I absolutely went nuclear when I read this version of their Crab Nubula Universe, of which their fellings of "inscurity" could put me into default!!!   Figure that verbal excrement out, and then tell me that this is a “good faith” contract!

This is outrage, both from the obvious consumer point of view, and from the legal point of view!  I do NOT agree that BS, one-sided, and nebulous language in their 4-pt font Agreement of Obfuscation is AT ALL LEGAL.  This is the most outrageous piece of contract law that I have ever seen.

Message Edited by RobertEG on 04-14-2008 11:32 PM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 04-14-2008 11:38 PM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 04-14-2008 11:42 PM

[Anonymous]

I just love what cc's get away with (yeah, right)

Changing rates for no reason isn't the only way they jack up the fees...
and sometimes they have a reason - usually late payment.

I manage all of my accounts online, which is the only reason I haven't been caught by any of these:

Capital One (cc): bill comes once every 2 - 3 months, about a week after it is due (that's right, 1 bill in 2/3 months).

Bank of America (cc): bill comes 2 weeks late, every month.

Citi Financial (personal): Used to come once a quarter, late. I dropped a huge payment on it in Sep, now I get a bill every month. Every bill tells me that I am so far ahead, I don't have to pay again until Nov 2009.

Wells Fargo (SL): bill consistently comes in a week after it was due.

Compass Bank (car): 4 bills in 2 years


The only ones who actually send the bill with enough time to pay are
American Express (cc): a week after statement close, giving me 3 weeks until due
Discover (cc): 2 weeks until due



It was on the news end of last month that some local water companies have gotten busted sending bills after their due dates, then charging late fees - had to pay them back. They were just attempting what other companies get away with all the time.



Pay VERY close attention to your due dates (not just when you get your bill), you may be paying "late" according to the fine print in your bill, even if you pay the day you get it.

Message Edited by meauho on 04-16-2008 02:50 PM