Why is my FICO 5 so much higher than my FICO 8 (normally it's the other way around)?

[OscarsMom]

I understand that there is a difference between Vantage and FICO scores because they're completely different scoring models. 

But my FICO 5 (the EQ mortgage score) is over 90 points higher than my FICO 8 (used for CCs and many loan products). Presumably my FICO 9 is lower too, since the two are usually close, right?

Isn't this the opposite of what most people experience? I don't have a mortgage - is that why? I can't think of another reason why they'd be so far apart, as the scoring percentages aren't THAT different. 

I'm limited to only Equifax scores, as nothing shows for me for TU or EX, after living outside the US for a long time until 2018. And I appear to be further limited to lenders who pull EQ 5 (I have the list) because the difference is so extreme (728 vs 636). 

[FireMedic1]

FICO 5 uses information from Equifax, while FICO 8 takes information from all three major credit reporting agencies. FICO Score 2 and FICO Score 4 (which are similar to FICO 5) are from Experian and TransUnion, respectively. Different scoring models.

[OscarsMom]

@FireMedic1 I have to admit I'm still confused. 

Right here on MyFICO it says my FICO 8 score of 636 is "based on Equifax data." There are two empty circles where my TU and EX scores should be. I know I can add them as a premium feature, but since I know from going to TU and EX that I'm "unscoreable," I haven't bothered.

So even though it looks like the FICO 8 is from Equifax alone, Equifax is actually pulling data (or non-data in my case) from TU and EX to give their score? But the Equifax 5 score is only based on my Equifax report. Do I have that right? 

(Former EMT/SAR by the way. Fist bump.)

[FireMedic1]

There's 28 FICO scoring models/scores and they all act differently to changes on your file. Catagory for each model when applying.

[OscarsMom]

@FireMedic1 I appreciate the chart, and I get they use different scoring criteria. But a spread of 92 points still feels off to me. 

It seems like it's a catch-22. Getting more credit would potentially raise my FICO 8, but I can't get more credit because my FICO 8 is too low. 

[GZG]

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@OscarsMom wrote:

@FireMedic1 I appreciate the chart, and I get they use different scoring criteria. But a spread of 92 points still feels off to me. 

It seems like it's a catch-22. Getting more credit would potentially raise my FICO 8, but I can't get more credit because my FICO 8 is too low. 

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rather than trying to solve why the scores are different, if you tell us what's currently on your profile, we can tell you why your FICO 8 is only 630 and how you might increase it 

we assume it's a young, thin file if everything has fallen off since you've been out of the country, but we can't know without knowing what's currently reporting for you

[OscarsMom]

@GZG, Same stuff on both, other than my FICO 5 showing an old JC Penney's card from 1991 that weirdly they have recorded as opened and closed on the same day (but it says "pays as agreed").

The only thing that is reporting is my single CC: a Cap One Platinum. Both FICO 8 and 5 show the utilization as wrong. I have a limit of $500, and have a balance of $300, and the utilization is showing as 100%. Other people have noted the same issue here on this forum with EQ.

I don't see any collections, derogatory remarks, old accounts, etc. No old mortgage (dropped off in 2017) or student loans (paid off in the '90s). Never had a car payment in my life. 

I don't understand the difference between the two EQ scores, nor do I get why EQ can somehow produce a score for me but TU and EX cannot. The EQ score was there, BTW, before I applied for and got my Cap One card, so that's not what's giving me my EQ score.  

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@OscarsMom wrote:

I understand that there is a difference between Vantage and FICO scores because they're completely different scoring models. 

But my FICO 5 (the EQ mortgage score) is over 90 points higher than my FICO 8 (used for CCs and many loan products). Presumably my FICO 9 is lower too, since the two are usually close, right?

Isn't this the opposite of what most people experience? I don't have a mortgage - is that why? I can't think of another reason why they'd be so far apart, as the scoring percentages aren't THAT different. 

I'm limited to only Equifax scores, as nothing shows for me for TU or EX, after living outside the US for a long time until 2018. And I appear to be further limited to lenders who pull EQ 5 (I have the list) because the difference is so extreme (728 vs 636). 

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Fico 8 has 12 scorecards - 8 clean and 4 dirty. Fico 9 has 13 scorecards - 8 clean, 4 dirty and 1 for high revolving utilization. The older Fico 04 and Fico 98 models have 10 scorecards - 8 clean and 2 dirty.

Fico EQ score 5, TU score 4 and EX score 3 are all based on the Fico 04 model. Fico EX score 2 is based on the Fico 98 base model.

While it is true that lack of an open loan can cost 30 points on Fico 8 but not the older Fico models, your score difference suggests something else as well. For example, you could be on a clean scorecard for EQ score 5 but a dirty one for EQ Fico 8. A Fico 8 score below 640 typically indicates a delinquency on file.

That being said, a select few clean, thin file posters have been able get down to the 600 -620 level by maxing out revolving utilization. They also had a short open account credit history.

As an FYI, EQ score 5 only goes to 818, TU score 4 goes to 839 and EX score 2 goes to 844. Thus, people with high Classic Fico 8 scores (say 780 and above almost always have lower Classic Fico mortgage scores. The situation tends to reverse itself when Fico 8 scores are below 700. In the 700 to 780 range it is often a toss-up as which is higher.

You need to get your credit report. Also, you can sign up on Credit Karma to look at account limits and balances.

A short, thin credit history may hurt more on Fico 8. High aggregate revolving utilization hurts more on Fico 8 as well. If you only have one open credit card then both individual and aggregate utilization will be the same - 100% in your case.

If utilization says 100% on EQ, perhaps you have a split file with that CRA. 

I once had a $5000 CL account report as $300 to the CRAs after I had closed the account. No idea what happened but I did dispute the low CL

[GZG]

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@OscarsMom wrote:

@GZG, Same stuff on both, other than my FICO 5 showing an old JC Penney's card from 1991 that weirdly they have recorded as opened and closed on the same day (but it says "pays as agreed").

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 both scores are generated from the same information, so we need to know what's actually still being reported, open and closed

https://www.annualcreditreport.com 

get your report(s) from here and tell us what is all reporting and how it's being reported 

this should clear up any confusion about why they're saying you have 100% utilization when the card is only 3/5 utilized 

[OscarsMom]

@GZG I just went through all three credit reports line by line. They each say the same thing: 

• One account, the aforementioned Capital One card
• No other revolving or installment accounts/loans, mortgages, collections, or derogatory items
• Two hard inquiries, one from Cap One and another from Citi (expected)

They have varying soft inquiries but I'm not worried about them, as no one else should see them. Only the Equifax report mentioned the old JCP account - I have no idea why, but I don't care, as it's not hurting me. Perhaps, though, it points to having a longer credit history that gives me a score with them and not TU or EX? 

There was some incorrect information in all three regarding phone numbers and addresses, and Experian had the wrong SSN for me. Those might explain some online ID authentication issues and will be disputed. I suppose now I will have to go down the Lexis Nexis h***hole to see if that's in there too. I tried to do the online dispute right there with Experian and it logged me out the second I disputed the SSN.   You can't even use their regular dispute line to remove an incorrect social. You have to call a dedicated number for that. Fun. 

Is there any benefit to freezing Experian and/or Lexis Nexis while I'm trying to open a CU account right now? It seems like it will be simple to correct Equifax and TU, but the Experian mistakes are going to be more of a headache? Can you freeze a bureau during a dispute? 

I will have to figure out how to deal with having a separate mailing and residential address, as a couple of reports had my mailing address as "current" and my residential address as "former." I've read not to remove the mailing address, as that's where my billing and banking goes. But it's a UPS store, not a residence (we don't have USPS delivery).

Experian also had a flag in the report that the mailing address was suspicious as it's "multifamily" address that is associated with mail drop services. IDK what I'm supposed to do about that. I have to get my mail somehow. I had a USPS box, but they made too many errors in giving my parcels to other people, so I switched. 

Equifax reports my CL as $300, which is why my balance of $300 on a $500 card looks like 100% utilization. That will be disputed as well. Like I said, it's some kind of EQ glitch that others have talked about on this forum. However, that doesn't explain, IMO, a 92-point difference between two Equifax scores.