Chase CSR Letter - Threatened to Close Account b/c of refunds

[MrT_521]

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Remedios wrote:You have enough Chase cards to know by now autopay will not engage if balance is $0.00 on the day you chose for autopay, regardless of what's on the statement.

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The point of using autopay is, if autopay does not take a payment on the due date, then it is all on Chase. Their systems did not work correctly and Chase needs to fix it. 

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That is my point exactly. Anyway, I intend to find out. OP indicated that Chase admitted to making a mistake, that it should never have happened in the first place. I have autopay, and I have a credit balance much larger than my next statement amount. I did send an SM just this morning to clarify how this works, so I'll see what the reply says. Otherwise, I'm going to let it go and see what happens.

I haven't touched the payment on my CSR since I had it and had autopay set up. I don't see how anyone, even a non-logical credit card company, can have a system which requires that having a credit balance means that I must manually do something to avoid a penalty. I haven't made a payment manually on my CSR in more than two years. I have to do it now? My guess is that it will work without a hitch.

[Anonymous]

This reminds me of something similar AMEX did to me. I always pay my balance in full, and have been banking my reward points for a little while now. So few months back I decieded to go ahead and pay my entire balance with my reward dollars. I go about my business thinking everything is fine until i log into my account to pay the following month and red banners galore saying I have missed my payment blah blah and they also took back all the rewards earned for the month prior. It took multiple contacts to get it sorted and points rewarded back. Takeaway was dont pay entire balance with points, unless you still want to make the minimum payment and put your account into a postive balance?

[AverageJoesCredit]

Simple takeaway should be to  never pay or expect to pay minimum payments with rewards/credits. 

Eta unless your specific lender allows rewards to be used in such manner

[Anonymous]

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@MrT_521 wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Remedios wrote:You have enough Chase cards to know by now autopay will not engage if balance is $0.00 on the day you chose for autopay, regardless of what's on the statement.

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The point of using autopay is, if autopay does not take a payment on the due date, then it is all on Chase. Their systems did not work correctly and Chase needs to fix it. 

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That is my point exactly. Anyway, I intend to find out. OP indicated that Chase admitted to making a mistake, that it should never have happened in the first place. I have autopay, and I have a credit balance much larger than my next statement amount. I did send an SM just this morning to clarify how this works, so I'll see what the reply says. Otherwise, I'm going to let it go and see what happens.

I haven't touched the payment on my CSR since I had it and had autopay set up. I don't see how anyone, even a non-logical credit card company, can have a system which requires that having a credit balance means that I must manually do something to avoid a penalty. I haven't made a payment manually on my CSR in more than two years. I have to do it now? My guess is that it will work without a hitch.

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I'd be interested to see what happens. In order to test this you need:

- a positive balance at statement cut

- credits that make the balance negative

- no new charges that make the balance positive

- 2 cycles

Would be a pain to replicate exactly.

[Remedios]

The only point I see here would be summed up under "Dont file complaints while people are working with YOU to help YOU"

Also, if one letter causes this type of reaction and makes OP want to fight windmills that arent even there, so be it.

[tacpoly]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@MrT_521 wrote:

I haven't touched the payment on my CSR since I had it and had autopay set up. I don't see how anyone, even a non-logical credit card company, can have a system which requires that having a credit balance means that I must manually do something to avoid a penalty. I haven't made a payment manually on my CSR in more than two years. I have to do it now? My guess is that it will work without a hitch.

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I'd be interested to see what happens. In order to test this you need:

- a positive balance at statement cut

- credits that make the balance negative

- no new charges that make the balance positive

- 2 cycles

Would be a pain to replicate exactly.

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I've been thinking about this, what triggered Chase to issue the letter to OP, and what I had done that was different that I didn't get one.  This is what I figure:

If the credit is large enough that it results in a 0 or negative balance (i.e. is greater than or equal to the previous month's balance plus all new charges), then Chase has no issue with that and no other payment is needed.  This is because Chase applies the credit to new charges first.  Ironically, OP pointed this out and why he (and I) is/are actually wrong insisting that he didn't need to pay.

OP showed his statements on page 7 of this thread:  

Previous balance___$2,280.59

Payments Credits__$2,460.95

New Charges________$383.72

New Balance________$203.36

What Chase does is apply the credit to new charges first ($383.72), then it applies the remaining credit ($2077.23) to the previous balance ($2280.59).  Because the remaining credit does not cover the previous balance, OP had not satisfied his debt obligation and still owes $203.36 from the previous month (2280.50 - 2077.23), which he either had to pay in full or part (i.e. the minimum due), because Chase has declared that a credit cannot be used in lieu of payment.

The scenario below would not require a minimum payment because the credit covered new charges (first) and previous balance (second).  In this case, Chase considers the previous month's debt obligation satisfied by the credit.  Those who insist that a payment is required even when the credit would result in a negative balance are likely overly careful.  

Previous balance___$2,000.00

Payments Credits__$3,000.00

New Charges______$1,000.00

New Balance__________$0.00

ETA:  The second scenario has happened to me many times (I used to shop J. Crew before they had physical stores and would send back clothes that didn't fit or I didn't like in person).  I've never paid when I knew a credit would result in a 0 or negative statement balance -- this is the key, it has to result in a 0 or negative statement balance -- and have never had a credit card company take issue/action in the decades I've had credit cards.  Not even American Express.

[UpperNwGuy]

Got my Sapphire Reserve statement a few days ago:

Previous Balance:  0

Payments/Credits:  -1,051.09

Purchases:  +593.56

New Balance:  -457.53

Minimum Payment Due:  0

This is in line with what tacpoly wrote immediately above.  The Payments/Credits amount is 100% credits.  I paid them nothing from my checking account this past cycle, nor do I need to pay them anything before the next due date.

[NRB525]

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@UpperNwGuy wrote:

Got my Sapphire Reserve statement a few days ago:

Previous Balance:  0

Payments/Credits:  -1,051.09

Purchases:  +593.56

New Balance:  -457.53

Minimum Payment Due:  0

This is in line with what tacpoly wrote immediately above.  The Payments/Credits amount is 100% credits.  I paid them nothing from my checking account this past cycle, nor do I need to pay them anything before the next due date.

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Do you happen to be on autopay?

[UpperNwGuy]

I don't use autopay for any of my credit cards.

[NRB525]

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@tacpoly wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@MrT_521 wrote:

I haven't touched the payment on my CSR since I had it and had autopay set up. I don't see how anyone, even a non-logical credit card company, can have a system which requires that having a credit balance means that I must manually do something to avoid a penalty. I haven't made a payment manually on my CSR in more than two years. I have to do it now? My guess is that it will work without a hitch.

---

I'd be interested to see what happens. In order to test this you need:

- a positive balance at statement cut

- credits that make the balance negative

- no new charges that make the balance positive

- 2 cycles

Would be a pain to replicate exactly.

---

I've been thinking about this, what triggered Chase to issue the letter to OP, and what I had done that was different that I didn't get one.  This is what I figure:

If the credit is large enough that it results in a 0 or negative balance (i.e. is greater than or equal to the previous month's balance plus all new charges), then Chase has no issue with that and no other payment is needed.  This is because Chase applies the credit to new charges first.  Ironically, OP pointed this out and why he (and I) is/are actually wrong insisting that he didn't need to pay.

OP showed his statements on page 7 of this thread:  

Previous balance___$2,280.59

Payments Credits__$2,460.95

New Charges________$383.72

New Balance________$203.36

What Chase does is apply the credit to new charges first ($383.72), then it applies the remaining credit ($2077.23) to the previous balance ($2280.59).  Because the remaining credit does not cover the previous balance, OP had not satisfied his debt obligation and still owes $203.36 from the previous month (2280.50 - 2077.23), which he either had to pay in full or part (i.e. the minimum due), because Chase has declared that a credit cannot be used in lieu of payment.

The situation below would not require a minimum payment because the credit covered new charges (first) and previous balance (second).  In this case, Chase considers the previous month's debt obligation satisfied by the credit.  Those who insist that a payment is required even when the credit would result in a negative balance are likely overly careful.  

Previous balance___$2,000.00

Payments Credits__$3,000.00

New Charges______$1,000.00

New Balance__________$0.00

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How much is minimum payment in these situations? $35? $50? The amount sorts itself out within 2 months, and satisfies the Prime Directive of Credit:

Always pay at least the minimum payment on time every month.

Everything else is a series of choices about how to use credit.  

Get cute with the Prime Directive and bad things can happen.