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Moderator Emeritus
Tuscani
Posts: 6,182
Registered: ‎03-29-2007
0

Disputing and Ethics

The ethics involved with disputing items on your credit report is a hot topic. I have seen many different opinions on this and would like to share my thoughts.
 
Is it ethical for someone to report 1 or 2 late payments for 7 years? Sure, it's legal, but
is it ethical for them to continue to hamper your efforts to improve your life and learn
from past mistakes? Only you can decide...no one else.
 
CRAs have to be able to verify it by the original records to report it and if they can't,
then they can't report it. Disputing is the avenue afforded us to request verification. You
are simply asking them to check their records to confirm.
 
IMO, It doesn't matter one bit what we know or don't know. We aren't reporting anything. The
law is clear that if the CRA is to report an account, they must be able to verify it with
the furnisher (among other things). If the account, lates, etc cannot be verified off it
goes. There is no section of the FCRA that states that a consumer's personal knowledge of an
account has any bearing on it's reporting or the CRA's requirement to verify. Doesn't
matter.
 
There is no ethical dilemma about disputing accounts that you personally know are reporting
correctly. What you know/don't know isn't relevant. (Try to have a non-reporting positive
account put ON your reports for an idea of how little what you know matters). :smileyhappy: All you are
doing is demanding the CRA prove that they can verify what they are reporting (no more, no
less).
 
Making false statements is another matter, saying "I was never late" when you in fact were
isn't appropriate nor is it necessary. Instead of claiming you were never late, insist the
CRA prove that the lates that they report are accurate. "Please provide evidence that this
information is accurate and belongs on my report" accomplishes the same thing as "I was
never late" without making any statements on your part.
 
 
Established Contributor
so_confused
Posts: 630
Registered: ‎06-20-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

YEP!!!  well said!
9/18/08 TU=707 EQ=706 EX=702
Established Contributor
dog
Posts: 560
Registered: ‎05-03-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

totally agree. 
Moderator Emeritus
masdeocho
Posts: 2,050
Registered: ‎04-17-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

Gotta respectfully disagree with you here, Tusc.  I could make a nice little legal argument that fully supports your position.  But ethics are another story.
 
Let's say a piece of info is correct, e.g., you (colloquial "you") were 60 days late. Suppose you don't know whether or not it's correct.  Or you believe it's incorrect.  OK, go ahead and dispute it. 
 
Now suppose that you know plain well that it is correct.  You dispute it, but not because you have some noble intent to force the CRAs to do their job.  We all have better ways to spend our time. Seriously. You dispute it because you're hoping you get lucky and they delete it.  I think there's an ethical issue there. 
 
You are arguing that your knowledge of the correctness of the item is irrelevant in this ethical dilemma.  I think your knowledge and intent has everything to do with it.  JMHO.
-----------------
Bartender, bring another round of FICOtinis please!

9.4.2011: TU 805. EQ 815.
Established Contributor
so_confused
Posts: 630
Registered: ‎06-20-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

so what you are saying ...as in most legal issues...its ones intent? that defines the ethics.
9/18/08 TU=707 EQ=706 EX=702
Moderator Emeritus
Tuscani
Posts: 6,182
Registered: ‎03-29-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics



masdeocho wrote:
Gotta respectfully disagree with you here, Tusc.  I could make a nice little legal argument that fully supports your position.  But ethics are another story.
 
Let's say a piece of info is correct, e.g., you (colloquial "you") were 60 days late. Suppose you don't know whether or not it's correct.  Or you believe it's incorrect.  OK, go ahead and dispute it. 
 
Now suppose that you know plain well that it is correct.  You dispute it, but not because you have some noble intent to force the CRAs to do their job.  We all have better ways to spend our time. Seriously. You dispute it because you're hoping you get lucky and they delete it.  I think there's an ethical issue there. 
 
You are arguing that your knowledge of the correctness of the item is irrelevant in this ethical dilemma.  I think your knowledge and intent has everything to do with it.  JMHO.


 

I hear you. But I do feel that knowing is irrelevant. How do you know that my intentions are not strictly noble? And assuming they are, why shouldn't the CRAs delete! If my intentions are not noble, why should I scrutinize myself for the CRAs not doing their job to verify. :smileyhappy:

Nonetheless, I think we can all agree that there is quite the fine line between legality and ethics.
Established Contributor
so_confused
Posts: 630
Registered: ‎06-20-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

Two cents:

 

I really don’t see an ethical issue for me anyway!!! If the credit card industry, CRA’s, CA’s, and OC’s can hold us to be sub-human on paper and hide under the cloak of the law for their profit and gain….Then so be it, I want to hold them to the same letter of the law.

And if by chance I have been resurrected to be human again by those actions.  I’ll carry that burden…can’t be can’t be any worse then this one.

9/18/08 TU=707 EQ=706 EX=702
Established Contributor
dog
Posts: 560
Registered: ‎05-03-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

hmmmm. 
ethics
right v. wrong.
i deal with it daily. 
 
suppose i have a client charged with stealing a pack of gum.  and he is guilty.  in fact, he has told me that he is guilty.  the state has a duty to prove that he is guilty, and to do so in an ethical manner.  my client also has a right to be defended, and for me to do so in an ethical manner.   there is a set of legal guidelines (the constitution, state statutes, caselaw, rules of court) that the prosecutor and i must both follow.  suppose the only evidence that the state has against my client is the item that he stole, which was found when the officer entered my client's home without a warrant (assume no exception to the warrant requirement applies).  no eyewitnesses, no video recordings, no confessions.  nada.  is it ethical for me to move to suppress the pack of gum, the result of which would be a dismissal?  of course.  it would be unethical for me to not make such motion.  it would be wrong for me to not hold the state to the legal standard that is placed upon it. 
 
suppose i have a tl on my reports.  and it is accurate.  in fact, i am certain that it is accurate.  the cra has the duty to show that it is accurate, and to do so in an ethical manner.  i also have a right to dispute the tl, and to do so in an ethical manner.  there is a set of legal guidelines that the cra and i must both follow.  suppose the only evidence that the cra has of the account is the fact that it is was reported by the oc three years ago.  suppose the oc is out of business, or the oc does not care to respond to the investigation, or suppose all records of my tl are lost or destroyed.  is it ethical for me to ask for verification of the debt, the result of which could be a removal.  of course.  it would not be unethical of me to hold the cra to the legal standard that is placed upon it. 
 
in both situations, holding the responsible party to its respective legal obligation is right.  it is right because it tries to ensure that those individuals who are innocent, whether of a crime or of defaulting on a debt, are not summarily found guilty or penalized for something that they did not do.  sure, a lot of criminals walk, and a lot of accurate tl's are deleted;  but, abrogating the right of any citizen to hold any other entity to the letter of the law is wrong...or a better word might be unethical.
 
Moderator Emeritus
masdeocho
Posts: 2,050
Registered: ‎04-17-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics



Tuscani wrote:


masdeocho wrote:
Gotta respectfully disagree with you here, Tusc.  I could make a nice little legal argument that fully supports your position.  But ethics are another story.
 
Let's say a piece of info is correct, e.g., you (colloquial "you") were 60 days late. Suppose you don't know whether or not it's correct.  Or you believe it's incorrect.  OK, go ahead and dispute it. 
 
Now suppose that you know plain well that it is correct.  You dispute it, but not because you have some noble intent to force the CRAs to do their job.  We all have better ways to spend our time. Seriously. You dispute it because you're hoping you get lucky and they delete it.  I think there's an ethical issue there. 
 
You are arguing that your knowledge of the correctness of the item is irrelevant in this ethical dilemma.  I think your knowledge and intent has everything to do with it.  JMHO.


 

I hear you. But I do feel that knowing is irrelevant. How do you know that my intentions are not strictly noble? And assuming they are, why shouldn't the CRAs delete! If my intentions are not noble, why should I scrutinize myself for the CRAs not doing their job to verify. :smileyhappy:

Nonetheless, I think we can all agree that there is quite the fine line between legality and ethics.


Tusc - I have never had any doubt that your intentions are always the noblest.  :smileyhappy:
-----------------
Bartender, bring another round of FICOtinis please!

9.4.2011: TU 805. EQ 815.
Established Contributor
so_confused
Posts: 630
Registered: ‎06-20-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

Hey didn't I just say that........:smileyvery-happy:You said it much better...I applaud you!!!
9/18/08 TU=707 EQ=706 EX=702

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