Upset over a fine print hard inquiry.

[delayedinsanity]

Well I just signed up with USAA and saw my Experian for the first time this year. Lo and behold there's a hard inquiry from my new credit union account. I called and asked why it was there, and if I could get it recoded or removed; at first the lower level CSR I was discussing it with agreed and said that they're supposed to do a soft pull. He elevated me to his supervisor who said nope, I agreed to the hard pull when I signed up, and that it was buried somewhere in the terms of service contract I was presented with. That'll teach me to start reading those in detail again.

So here's my question; If I apply for their Visa card within the next week or two they said they have to do another hard pull. That's going to be two from the same source in less than 30 days (so long as I do so before the 9th); will that group and show as one, like a mortgage or auto loan set of inquiries?

[kjm79]

Nope.  Account openings and credit products will be counted as separate inquiries. 

[delayedinsanity]

The least they could have done was use it to pre-approve me. According to the person in their lending department that she talked to, it was only "a partial report that should drop off in 60 days unless another inquiry is placed". That sounds more like, "here feed them this line, and hopefully they'll be satisfied and won't realize that it never went anywhere in 2 months".

[kjm79]

Unlikely it will drop off in 2 months, but GREAT if it does.  I've found that the "credit analysts" for companies don't really know anything about the inner workings of credit.  Especially the employees of the CRA's. 

You might get pre-approvals from that pull but just keep in mind that ANY TIME you apply for credit you should expect your credit to be pulled.  NavyFed is very pull happy.  Account openings, credit products (different CRA), CLI's.  Careful what you ask for. 

[delayedinsanity]

That's almost exactly what I said to her too (about it being unlikely and great if it does), thanks to the knowledge I've garnered from these forums. I'm not even too interested in the pre approval, it just would have been nice. I'll be applying on the 6th for a card with them in person so hopefully they'll recognize their own inquiry and not use that in a decision against.

[RobertEG]

Bottom line is that if you initiate a request for credit or insurance, that is a permissible purpose for pulling your CR.

There is no such thing under the FCRA as a "hard" or "soft" pull, except for promotional inquires made without consumer initiation of a request for credit or insurance.

No basis for any dispute.  They were authorized to pull, and record its purpose, which can, and some would argue should always, be reported as an inquiry that is viewable by other creditors.

I have no idea how a creditor can even report an inquiry intiated by a request for credit by a consumer in such a way that masks its real purpose.  Their obviously is some way, but the magic of how that is done totally escapes me.

[delayedinsanity]

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@RobertEG wrote:

Bottom line is that if you initiate a request for credit or insurance, that is a permissible purpose for pulling your CR.

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I guess then the bottom line is that I didn't initiate a request for credit or insurance... unless the fact that my money is federally insured by NCUA might be considered by some to be a request for insurance? In which case why didn't BofA pull my credit report? Or ING? I haven't requested a line of credit with them (the credit union, New Mexico Educators), either of the installment or revolving variety, at least not yet. When they asked if I wanted to sign up for overdraft protection, I said no. 

I also went back and reviewed the terms presented when opening an account. It states that they may require such information as my name, address and social security number to confirm my identity. It doesn't actually, directly or somewhat indirectly state anywhere that they were going to pull my credit report to do this. Only that they "may ask for it" during the process. 

I'm considering renewing my request to remove or recode the inquiry due to that fact. I wasn't properly informed in my opinion. At the same time I'm not going to get all butt hurt about it either... if it stays, it stays; my life won't be over. I just got caught a little off guard is all.

I'm considering requesting again for them to remove the inquiry due to this fact. I wasn't properly informed, such as when you apply for a credit report and it states quite clearly that they will be accessing your credit report.

[RobertEG]

I should have also included the permissible pull provision of section 604(a)(3)(f) in addition to those for credit and insurance initiated transactions.

Section 604(a)(3)(f)(i) additionally provides permissible purpose to a party who

"otherwise has a legitimate business need for the information in connection with a business transaction that was initiated by the consumer."

The account was a business transaction initiated by the consumer.  Having permissible purpose, there was no need for you to have separately authorized their request for your CR.  The entire intent of section 604 is to identify those types of inquiries that do NOT need express consumer approval.

 It is, in my opinion, simple a coding issue,

[delayedinsanity]

Augh here's another pardon my ignorance question, but are you saying that a) they have the right to pull regardless of what I think I read, and it's up to them how they code it, or b) they have the right, but they should have coded it as a soft inquiry?

[RobertEG]

By initiating a business transaction, if they have a legitimate business purpose for wanting to review your CR, and opening an account would, in my opinion, clearly be a legitimate business purpose, you have permitted an inquiry.  Unless your application specifically stated that they wont make a credit inquiry, thus giving up that right, they have permissible purpose for an inquiry without need for express consumer consent.

As for how they "code" it, once again, if they have permissible purpose, they must state that purpose when making their inquiry.  I have NO idea how a creditor  reports a permissible purpose that qualifies as an inquiry that is included in your credit report, and yet block it from CR inclusion without mistating their permissible purpose.

Perhaps there is a credit reporting code that reads..."for a legitimate business purpose, but block it from CR inclusion?"

It's a huge mystery, at least to me.  Not something that is disputable under any provision of the FCRA or reporting guidelines that I am aware of.

Disputes over credit report inquiries are generally viewed, even by regulators, as not being worth the time and effort, as clearly evidenced by their total exclusion from even being disputable using the direct dispute process.