850 score and Age of Youngest > 1.0

Anonymous · ‎02-11-2017

A dozen or more people report in to the forums each year that they achieved an 850 FICO 8.

Does anyone know if this has been achieved with an Age of Youngest Account < 1.0 year?

Related question: for those who had been angling for an 850, did the moment of triumph occur at about the same time when AoY crossed over either 1.0 or 2.0?

Note that I am not talking about other age related factors, such as AAoA or Age of Oldest Account.

Age of Youngest is one of the three factors used in assigning a person with a clean profile to a "scorecard." Every scorecard has a maximum ceiling of a score associated with it. I am trying to sense whether, of the 8 clean score cards, only those with an AoY of either 1.0 (or possibly 2.0) are able to score 850.

My apologies if there's a thread out there that answers this definitively,

It's a question with practical implications for the many of us who are CC bonus chasers. If it is certain that we'll never have an 850 (assuming we add at least one new card every 11 months) it would be nice to know that. I have basically assumed that this is the case, but it occurred to me today that I really don't know.

And I do know that there isn't a difference in what an 830 vs. an 850 from the perspective of a lender evaluating you. All this is more about being able to put to rest ambitions of crossing a line that by definition can't be crossed (for someone who likes CC bonsues).

A final (and also related) question:

For those people who have been trying to get a score in the upper 840s at least, what's the highest a person has achieved with an AoY < 1.0? The answer may be 850, but I'd also be curious to year whether the theroetical maximum is more like 840.

If anyone knows the answer to any of these questions for FICO 9, I'd love to hear that too.

iv · ‎02-11-2017

@Anonymous wrote:
final (and also related) question:
For those people who have been trying to get a score in the upper 840s at least, what's the highest a person has achieved with an AoY < 1.0? The answer may be 850, but I'd also be curious to year whether the theroetical maximum is more like 840.

I can provide a single datapoint here - was at 850/850/850 FICO 8 as of July 2014, then opened a HELOC (one EX pull), followed a few months later by a new mortgage on a different property (tri-merge pull).

After the pulls and just the (100% util) HELOC reported (~1 month old), scores dropped to 841/841/837 (the 837 was EX with two inquires vs just one on the others).

Dropped into the 820s after the new mortgage reported and a prior almost-fully-paid mortgage was paid/closed.

Have been much more active credit-wise (and reported util-wise) since then than normal (well, than MY normal, anyway), so haven't bounced all the way back up yet - can swing scores between 790s and low 830s right now, just by playing with reported util each month.

So - as a minimum high-water mark, 841 is possible with a brand-new account and a single pull. Depending on how much headroom is available "over" 850 in the algorithm, 850 with a fresh account could very well be possible.

EQ8:850 TU8:850 EX8:850
EQ9:847 TU9:847 EX9:839
EQ5:797 TU4:807 EX2:813 - 2021-06-06

Revelate · ‎02-11-2017

@iv wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
final (and also related) question:
For those people who have been trying to get a score in the upper 840s at least, what's the highest a person has achieved with an AoY < 1.0? The answer may be 850, but I'd also be curious to year whether the theroetical maximum is more like 840.

I can provide a single datapoint here - was at 850/850/850 FICO 8 as of July 2014, then opened a HELOC (one EX pull), followed a few months later by a new mortgage on a different property (tri-merge pull).

After the pulls and just the (100% util) HELOC reported (~1 month old), scores dropped to 841/841/837 (the 837 was EX with two inquires vs just one on the others).

Dropped into the 820s after the new mortgage reported and a prior almost-fully-paid mortgage was paid/closed.

Have been much more active credit-wise (and reported util-wise) since then than normal (well, than MY normal, anyway), so haven't bounced all the way back up yet - can swing scores between 790s and low 830s right now, just by playing with reported util each month.

So - as a minimum high-water mark, 841 is possible with a brand-new account and a single pull. Depending on how much headroom is available "over" 850 in the algorithm, 850 with a fresh account could very well be possible.

Hrm, with FICO 8 and what you describe that all might be installment utilization? I do know my own HELOC isn't counting as revolving, but it's hard for me to tease out if it's explicitly installment currently short of paying off my mortgage with a quickness.

If I do ever get to 850 (doubt it) I'll open up another credit card and leave it at $0 just to see I guess.

iv · ‎02-11-2017

@Revelate wrote:
@iv wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
final (and also related) question:
For those people who have been trying to get a score in the upper 840s at least, what's the highest a person has achieved with an AoY < 1.0? The answer may be 850, but I'd also be curious to year whether the theroetical maximum is more like 840.

I can provide a single datapoint here - was at 850/850/850 FICO 8 as of July 2014, then opened a HELOC (one EX pull), followed a few months later by a new mortgage on a different property (tri-merge pull).

After the pulls and just the (100% util) HELOC reported (~1 month old), scores dropped to 841/841/837 (the 837 was EX with two inquires vs just one on the others).

Dropped into the 820s after the new mortgage reported and a prior almost-fully-paid mortgage was paid/closed.

Have been much more active credit-wise (and reported util-wise) since then than normal (well, than MY normal, anyway), so haven't bounced all the way back up yet - can swing scores between 790s and low 830s right now, just by playing with reported util each month.

So - as a minimum high-water mark, 841 is possible with a brand-new account and a single pull. Depending on how much headroom is available "over" 850 in the algorithm, 850 with a fresh account could very well be possible.

Hrm, with FICO 8 and what you describe that all might be installment utilization? I do know my own HELOC isn't counting as revolving, but it's hard for me to tease out if it's explicitly installment currently short of paying off my mortgage with a quickness.

If I do ever get to 850 (doubt it) I'll open up another credit card and leave it at $0 just to see I guess.

The drop to the 820s was definitely installment util. The initial drop to 841? Maybe:

1) Started at 850s with one almost completely paid-down mortgage (and an auto loan)

2) Added a 100% util HELOC (+inqs), dropped to 841 (total installment went up to 50-ish%)

3) Added another mortgage and closed the almost-paid one (and the auto loan), dropped to 820s (total installment to 99+%)

The installment/mortgage util was clearly the prime factor in step 3.

In step 2...? Harder to tell. At least a couple of points was from the inq, and probably from the new account (although AAoA stayed over 8), but how much if any was from going to 50-ish% installment util? Dunno. Also really depends on how much buffer was in that 850 to start with.

The property backing that HELOC is under contract to sell next month, and I'll probably be opening another HELOC at that point on my current primary residence. I might leave it at 0% for a month, and bring revolving util down to 1% reporting for the same month (from the random 10%-25% it's been reporting recently), just to see what the "best case" scoring with a brand-new mortgage/installment loan can actually be.

EQ8:850 TU8:850 EX8:850
EQ9:847 TU9:847 EX9:839
EQ5:797 TU4:807 EX2:813 - 2021-06-06

newhis · ‎02-11-2017

I was able to get my TU FICO to 842 thanks to the SSL technique with AoY at 5 months and the SSL at 2 months (I think it reported for the first time).

Maybe I'll hit 850 when the newest account reach 1 year.

Anonymous · ‎02-11-2017

Thanks, iv! This helps me a lot. It does show that it is possible to have an extremely high score (841) with a brand new account reporting. (Plus you had an inquiry on top of that and a substantial increase in installment U.)

I don't think I have a desire for the 850 in itself. But I do like knowing I can get close to it, just since that way I have more room for my score to drop.

The 841 doesn't rule out the possibility that you went to a new scorecard that had a maximum of 848 (say) whereas the ideal scorecard you were previously in might have had a maximum of 865 (including buffer). Obviously I am just making up some numbers there. Or as you say maybe an 850 was still possible in the new scorecard, and if you hadn't had the inquiry and the change in installment U, you might have still had an 850.

Prior to adding the new account, what was your Age of Oldest Account?

Anonymous · ‎02-11-2017

@newhis wrote:
I was able to get my TU FICO to 842 thanks to the SSL technique with AoY at 5 months and the SSL at 2 months (I think it reported for the first time).

Maybe I'll hit 850 when the newest account reach 1 year.

Thanks Newhis. I'm a tiny bit confused though... if your AoY was five months, how could you have had a younger account (the SSL at two months)?

Also, what was your Age of Oldest Account? That would have also been a scorecard assignment factor.

Anonymous · ‎02-11-2017

PS to Newhis....

You just made me think of something. I believe that somewhere in the Share Secure Loan Technique thread we have at least one person who claimed to have hit 850 after adding his Alliant loan and paying it down. That would confirm that the presence of a very young account (AoY < 0.25) would not in itself prevent you from getting to 850.

The SSL is an especially nice way to test this because it involves no hard inquiry, which most new accounts do. I will go back and read through it tomorrow and see if I can find the person or people who made that claim.

newhis · ‎02-11-2017

@Anonymous wrote:
@newhis wrote:
I was able to get my TU FICO to 842 thanks to the SSL technique with AoY at 5 months and the SSL at 2 months (I think it reported for the first time).

Maybe I'll hit 850 when the newest account reach 1 year.
Thanks Newhis. I'm a tiny bit confused though... if your AoY was five months, how could you have had a younger account (the SSL at two months)?

Also, what was your Age of Oldest Account? That would have also been a scorecard assignment factor.

Sorry, my newest CC is 5 months, SSL opened in November, 842 from January 3rd. I didn't know that FICO look at credit cards and loans the same way as AoY, sorry.

Previous to those 2 accounts the next was 13 months.

AoOA 31 years

Do you know if the people that got to 850 with a new SSL had any CC younger than 1 year?

Anonymous · ‎02-11-2017

@newhis wrote:
Sorry, my newest CC is 5 months, SSL opened in November, 842 from January 3rd. I didn't know that FICO look at credit cards and loans the same way as AoY, sorry.
Previous to those 2 accounts the next was 13 months.
AoOA 31 years

Do you know if the people that got to 850 with a new SSL had any CC younger than 1 year?

Yeah, Age of Youngest Account considers all accounts, whether they are installment or revolving, also whether they are closed or open. Doesn't matter. An account is an account. AAoA (Average Age of Accounts) works the same way, as does Age of Oldest Account.

I thought that your Age of Oldest might be really high... good to know.

I do not know if the people that got to 850 with a new SSL had any CC younger than 1 year. Can't even remember their screennames or whether was 1 or 2 of them. If I am willing to plow throught the thread tomorrow I may be able to find their names, and then you can ask them via PM.