Am I getting Swindled?

[oceanbay]

Think this is a rhetorical question.

So a little about my story: I bought a new car and was too conservative about it, car just didn't have anything to keep me going. Its been a month now and I've been shopping to trade it in to get the car I should have bought in the first place. Now on the story.

So I call up this dealer and they send me a e price quote which is around $1500 below MSRP. I qualify for an additional grad $500 rebate so I'm looking at a really solid deal.

So I tell the dealer I've been working with other dealers and gave them the offers I've gotten (slightly low balling the price). This sales manager tells me the trade in value that I got from two other dealers (both unseen however) "sounds in the right ballpark" and that he could match it.

Originally I applied for financing and he calls me back, tells me he can give me the 5% Apr that I told him would be the highest I'd go (low for my credit score). So he asks if I can come that night. The dealership is 3 hours away and by the time I got there I would have had 30 minutes to do paperwork and didn't want to put myself in a bad position. So I went today and here are the tricks I got:

-first he told me he "over valued my trade in and he could get it cheaper brand new" but was willing to stick to what he offered, so that's cool.

-second originally I was financing 100% of the vehicle for 5% Apr but then he came out and told me that he knew I applied for another dealership in the area knew what they offered me but then told me that the bank told him I was denied for the loan...even though that dealership told me 3 days after I applied that the deal was still good if I wanted it. So that makes no sense. 

-third now he tells me that the bank approved me but only if I put 2000 down and the Apr was 5.9% instead of 5% like he told me I got. Now remember he wanted me to rush up there and take delivery in 20 minutes yesterday.

So finally we came to "if you put 1200 down I'm 99% sure I can get the bank to finance you the other 800" and he wanted me to take delivery and "trust" that he could get it done. So I asked him, would you take $750 off of the car of you can't? He said "of course not, I'm already losing money". So I said exactly so why do you expect me to do it so that I lose my car and my money?

So I ended up walking out telling them that if they could get me a for.sure final contract with our numbers then I'd buy otherwise no thanks. It is still set up, however that I would put 600 down now and 600 more next week when I get paid. I don't know how I feel about that.

Just another funny item. Apparently they had just called him at 8:15pm to give them their financing decision. Yet when I asked if he could give me a 100% yes or no on the extra 800$ he said " wells its 8:45pm here so its almost 9;45pm there and I've called the top 3 guys and haven't heard back again so I assumed they left" then I asked where are they located he studdered and said "San Diego" ...we are in Portland...same time zone hahahaha lying bastard.

So I don't know what I want to do. I really want the car but not very keen on this dealership now so I don't know if I can trust them at all. Also I don't know how to feel about the 600 now and 600 next week thing and if that will screw me.

[MissMoni223]

I suggest that you continue your car search.  That dealership appears to be a bit too shady for my liking.  They're trying to get as much money out of you as they can to help cover his commission.

[DevotionToU]

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@MissMoni223 wrote:

I suggest that you continue your car search.  That dealership appears to be a bit too shady for my liking.  They're trying to get as much money out of you as they can to help cover his commission.

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Yeah I would echo this sentiment.  When they say they are "losing" money to sell you a vehicle, you know it is BS.  I would walk away at that point.

[Anonymous]

Plenty of cars. If you don't feel comfortable or if the numbers don't add up then you should leave. Price, Trade in, down payment, interest rates are all separate negotiations. Get the price for your trade in, get the price of the new car, know how much of a down payment you are putting down. Do the math and these numbers should add up, but don't be surprised if the dealer's math differs from yours. They might give you an extra $1k on your trade in and up the price by $1,500. This is why dealers love to rush you to sign. They have to make some money and if you are getting an all around great deal then they would need to atleast make money on the higher interest rate. You can either find financing elsewhere or refinance your auto loan as long as there are no prepayment penalties. Buying a car and ensuring that you are getting a fair deal will require a lot of work and knowledge from your part.

[Anonymous]

In the case of your down payment you might be buying a car for $25k minus $1k down payment yet your loan amount is still $25k+. That's how dealer's math work. Always check the calculations.

[oceanbay]

So I did the deal with the dealer. So I signed both a buyers order and an installment contract. There were items below that said subject to financing approval so I made the finance purchase show me in their system where I was approved and how much I was approved for and the tier of finance I fit into. So I saw where the bank said I was approved I saw the approval amount and I saw the Apr that was noted I qualified for in their system. I was "conditionally approves" because of Mazda's college grad program.

The finance guy started getting pissy after a few questions but I did take almost 30 minutes looking at the buyers order and the installment contract.

The installment contract also states that I am to have my trade in back and any deposits if the dealer changes the agreed terms. So it think I'm covered but obviously a little nervous

[Anonymous]

I am glad you took the time to read. Yes if they can't approve you on the terms/rate that you signed then the whole deal is voided.  Another dealer strategy is to send you out with the car with 5% interest rate only to call you back a few days/weeks later saying that you are not approved for the orginal terms and need to come back and sign a loan for 8%.  You have the right to give the car back and walk away.  It is not difficult if you take the time to educate yourself.  Congrats!

[oceanbay]

I did trade in another car that they are paying off. If they try to call me back in, can I give the car back and still have them keep and pay off my old car? because I did get a fair trade and I didn't like that thing anyway.

[StartingOver10]

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@oceanbay wrote:
I did trade in another car that they are paying off. If they try to call me back in, can I give the car back and still have them keep and pay off my old car? because I did get a fair trade and I didn't like that thing anyway.

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^^^This is a different deal.  If they call you back in to change your rate or terms you want to get your old car and go somewhere else. Don't leave your car with this dealer because you don't like the car. They may keep the car, not pay it off and totally destroy your credit. Yes, this happens especially with shady car dealers. And the car dealer you are working with is not entirely on the up and up.

If you don't like your car and the deal you worked out doesn't stick then get your car and take it to carmax and have them buy it from you.  Selling your car outright is different than trading in a vehicle.

One more point of interest for you: when a dealer gives you a "decent trade in value" look at the sales price of the new purchase. Normally the dealer just slides the amount of excess trade in value right over to the new purchase price. You have to look at the deal as a whole.

[oceanbay]

Yeah I was more joking than not. If they call me back in I'm going to get my $1200 down payment and car back. They can't legally sale it until the deal is done, right?

Meaning if they call me up tell me the Apr is higher I refuse to accept they HAVE to give me my vehicle and money back, right? If they try to refuse or tell me "they've sold it" can I call the police or what is my quickest way for retribution?

If they try this they are banking on the idea I love this new car, its a nice car but I won't be man handled and screwed. They did make me sign the buyers order and a retail installment contract. The Honda dealer did not have me sign a buyers order.