@Anonymous wrote:
@StartingOver10 wrote:
They make more on the back end in the F&I department than they do on the vehicle so if they can give you an excuse to pull your credit they will do it. Even if you want to pay cash. I completely understand the OFAC issue - but putting on 5+ inquiries to check against the OFAC list - no way.Here is one of the threads discussing this issue http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Auto-Loans/WTH-Patriot-act-OFAC-requires-me-to-fill-out-a-credit/m-p/2172379#M31371Well let's not go too far overboard 😀. Yes, sometimes dealerships make more in F&I then on the car itself but that's certainly not the case most of the time. With the advent of manufacturers special financing like 0% it's very hard to do that any longer. A lot of times if the customer takes advantage of the special financing dealers will make only the $50 or $100 that the manufacturers finance company gives them for processing the loan.
Actually my thinking was this: the F&I department is the one that tries to get the consumer to buy a bunch of needless extras. One of those extras would be to get the consumer to accept a higher interest rate than what the bank actually requires (premium par rate) but there are other extras. For example: GAP insurance, extended warranty, service contracts, paint and fabric protection, 'etching' etc. I consider all these 'back end' profit type items that have to be negotiated again in the F&I office (negotiated out of the contract).
But I do get your point Irish80 
@StartingOver10 wrote:
@TRC_WA wrote:refinance in a year with BECU but I'm happy with the rate I got all things considered.
One thing I do want to mention is even if you go in there with a preapproval from your CU... the dealership will still pull your credit. They told me it's the law as part of the identity verification homeland security stuff after 9/11. I got the same story from both dealerships.
At any rate, I got my Challenger and I'm in the garden. The auto loan process wasn't all that difficult despite the numerous inquiries. My score wasn't affected.
^^^^^^We have had that discussion on here several times - but the dealership will tell you they have to pull your credit for the above stated reason, but there is another form they can have you fill out and sign that is NOT an authorization to pull credit and it fulfills the homeland security obligation. I forget the form, but will look for it. The whole reason they pull your credit is to get the loan - period. They make more on the back end in the F&I department than they do on the vehicle so if they can give you an excuse to pull your credit they will do it. Even if you want to pay cash. I completely understand the OFAC issue - but putting on 5+ inquiries to check against the OFAC list - no way.Here is one of the threads discussing this issue http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Auto-Loans/WTH-Patriot-act-OFAC-requires-me-to-fill-out-a-credit/m-p...
@Anonymous wrote:I worked at a dealership after 9/11 and we sold many cars to people with preapproved loans and never ran their credit. It's a BS excuse that I've never heard of until reading it here. Additionally I just purchased a car in July, walked in the dealership and told them I had my financing lined up with USAA and drove off with the car without giving them anything from USAA. They never ran my credit.
StartingOver is dead on, it's just an excuse for them to run your credit and try to secure the financing. Tell them to pound sand or you're going elsewhere.
Thanks to you both for the info... I didn't think to question it because I assumed it was legit.
I went to 2 dealerships and including the 2 INQs I took from my own apps (BECU, Chrysler Capital) I took 18 total INQ's from my car shopping.
2 TU
5 EX
11 EQ
As said, all I lost was 1 point on EQ when the 1st INQ hit. Didn't lose any on EX or TU. They did get me a better rate... 4.99% but it may even be slightly lower than that... I'm waiting on all the paperwork from CCU.
At any rate, it's too late to complain about it but next time I'll know better... if there even is a next time. I bought my dream car and it's mine till I die or it dies. 
@StartingOver10 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@StartingOver10 wrote:
They make more on the back end in the F&I department than they do on the vehicle so if they can give you an excuse to pull your credit they will do it. Even if you want to pay cash. I completely understand the OFAC issue - but putting on 5+ inquiries to check against the OFAC list - no way.Here is one of the threads discussing this issue http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Auto-Loans/WTH-Patriot-act-OFAC-requires-me-to-fill-out-a-credit/m-p/2172379#M31371Well let's not go too far overboard 😀. Yes, sometimes dealerships make more in F&I then on the car itself but that's certainly not the case most of the time. With the advent of manufacturers special financing like 0% it's very hard to do that any longer. A lot of times if the customer takes advantage of the special financing dealers will make only the $50 or $100 that the manufacturers finance company gives them for processing the loan.
Actually my thinking was this: the F&I department is the one that tries to get the consumer to buy a bunch of needless extras. One of those extras would be to get the consumer to accept a higher interest rate than what the bank actually requires (premium par rate) but there are other extras. For example: GAP insurance, extended warranty, service contracts, paint and fabric protection, 'etching' etc. I consider all these 'back end' profit type items that have to be negotiated again in the F&I office (negotiated out of the contract).
But I do get your point Irish80
No doubt that has happened in the past and still does and yes those are usually under the F&I department unless they happen to employ some hot looking customer service rep to try to sell those to you.. It just doesn't happen as much any longer because of the Internet and more educated consumers. The only one of those aftermarket products I recommend is the extended warranty if you can buy it for a good price and it's the one from the manufacturer and not some third party warranty. Then the best way to go about it is to offer $100 over the cost to the dealership for the warranty and have them show you the cost. Extended warranties can be valuable depending on your driving habits. Gap insurance can be valuable if you didn't put much down but you can get it cheaper from your insurance company. The rest of the stuff you mention is crap (well etching sometimes but it's very inexpensive). People just have to be prepared and stand their ground.
@TRC_WA wrote:.....
Thanks to you both for the info... I didn't think to question it because I assumed it was legit.
I went to 2 dealerships and including the 2 INQs I took from my own apps (BECU, Chrysler Capital) I took 18 total INQ's from my car shopping.
2 TU
5 EX
11 EQ
As said, all I lost was 1 point on EQ when the 1st INQ hit. Didn't lose any on EX or TU. They did get me a better rate... 4.99% but it may even be slightly lower than that... I'm waiting on all the paperwork from CCU.
At any rate, it's too late to complain about it but next time I'll know better... if there even is a next time. I bought my dream car and it's mine till I die or it dies.
Congrats! I'm glad you 
your new car!
@Anonymous wrote:No doubt that has happened in the past and still does and yes those are usually under the F&I department unless they happen to employ some hot looking customer service rep to try to sell those to you.. It just doesn't happen as much any longer because of the Internet and more educated consumers. The only one of those aftermarket products I recommend is the extended warranty if you can buy it for a good price and it's the one from the manufacturer and not some third party warranty. Then the best way to go about it is to offer $100 over the cost to the dealership for the warranty and have them show you the cost. Extended warranties can be valuable depending on your driving habits. Gap insurance can be valuable if you didn't put much down but you can get it cheaper from your insurance company. The rest of the stuff you mention is crap (well etching sometimes but it's very inexpensive). People just have to be prepared and stand their ground.
I went with both... I got the extended warranty mainly for the multiple computer systems in the car. It was a 3rd party warranty though... and wasn't even called a warranty. It was called an extended service plan that covered pretty much everything bumper to bumper. I know I probably paid too much but in the end it was only an extra $25 a month on my payment. I also got GAP insurance... because I put $0 down on a $40,000 car. I checked with Progressive and they were $3 a month cheaper with what they offered... (it wasn't called GAP it was called something else) I just stayed with the dealer insurance. The GAP insurance was $23 a month. If there is a better option out there by all means point me in the right direction.
I can cancel this and switch at any time I believe...
@StartingOver10 wrote:
@TRC_WA wrote:
At any rate, it's too late to complain about it but next time I'll know better... if there even is a next time. I bought my dream car and it's mine till I die or it dies.
Congrats! I'm glad you
I only have one word to describe this car...
BEAST.
FWIW if I ever buy a new car, I will be securing financing beforehand and then letting the dealer try to beat it after we've agreed upon a price. Other than absolute inquiry count which I don't care about when it comes to auto and mortgage inquiries, there's really no reason not to let the manufacturer's lender try to beat it.
Realistically we should be rate shopping, and I'm all for letting the dealer do that for me where they have the relationships with the lenders ("how badly do you want to make this loan?"). Used car, it's hard to beat some of the CU's many of which are around 2% currently, less value of doing it then if you have excellent financing in hand already... but in that case I'll probably let my CU's compete against each other beforehand anyway .
