Anyone know anything about book and page of lien?

[Anonymous]

so i'm awaiting disharge for Ch 7 and i have everyone included that i need however there is a debt which stems from maybe 25 years ago that my lawyer is having trouble reaching. He is saying i need to call the courthouse and get a copy of the book and page of when lien was reported. All i have are copies showing Asset Acceptance, Assignee of first select bank vs Assignee etc...i figured just sending the paperwork to them would be fine but i guess not. I also remember it being a part of something called Parnell and Associates. I"m wondering if i can contact one of these places directly and ask who i owe. And then use that for my lawyer to send the info to include in BK.. would be crushed if this came back to garnish me or something in the future considering the idea of a BK is a fresh start.

[sarge12]

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@Anonymous wrote:

so i'm awaiting disharge for Ch 7 and i have everyone included that i need however there is a debt which stems from maybe 25 years ago that my lawyer is having trouble reaching. He is saying i need to call the courthouse and get a copy of the book and page of when lien was reported. All i have are copies showing Asset Acceptance, Assignee of first select bank vs Assignee etc...i figured just sending the paperwork to them would be fine but i guess not. I also remember it being a part of something called Parnell and Associates. I"m wondering if i can contact one of these places directly and ask who i owe. And then use that for my lawyer to send the info to include in BK.. would be crushed if this came back to garnish me or something in the future considering the idea of a BK is a fresh start.

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It likely differs by County, but in my County the courthouse has records in books such as leins an deeds, and it is searchable if you go there. You can search by Name, Address, etc. Once the last title transfer is found, it will indicate the lein holder, and the lein documents is in another book and page often indicated on the title transfer. It is also searchable by date. Spent a long time there when searching the complete history of some of my families land all the way back to a land grant under an English King. The sales documents should inicate the book and page for the title transfer on the loan document though.

[Anonymous]

ok. this is sort of foreign to me and it sounds like things related to an auto.. does your example also apply in my situation which is of a credit card?

[sarge12]

There is even likely an online search tool for the records now, because this was before the internet became widely used.

[sarge12]

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@Anonymous wrote:

ok. this is sort of foreign to me and it sounds like things related to an auto.. does your example also apply in my situation which is of a credit card?

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25 year old credit card debt would be way beyond the SOL for that type of debt everywhere I know of.

[Anonymous]

i would think so but they still send me letters with an amount owed and a threat to garnish wages. get one maybe once every 1 or 2 years.. i'm guess i should try the probate judge office to see if they have anything

[Mizqtpye]

Like Sarge said, it's usually by county...but should be a pretty painless process to locate. I'm assuming this is a judgment for the cc debt that was attached as a lien on real property? If so, the part of the court you're looking for is usually called the "recorders" office. Most are also digital these days. Do a google search for your county's recorders office and see if they have online searching and search for the address. Where I'm at we also have a digital "Lien Index" that is statewide so you can probably look for something like that online too. Just make sure you're on a .org or .gov website.

If those fail (I'm assuming your atty woulda tried those already...but never know)...call the recorders office and tell them what your searching for, they should be able to help.  The book and page for liens are common terms for them so they'll know what you're talking about. You may end up having to go to the court, but try online then phone first. If you go, the clerk should be able to guide you.

While 25 year cc debt is pretty old, you have to know your states laws with regards to judgment liens and how long they last. Where I'm at, a judgment lien is enforceable for 7 years but can be renewed every 7 years to keep it enforceable. There's lots of other nuances so best to work with your BK atty to know your exposure for sure.  

BK Courts usually need to know when and where the lien is recorded in the official records...which is why your atty is asking for the "book and page" where the lien is recorded. 

Best of luck!

[sarge12]

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@Anonymous wrote:

i would think so but they still send me letters with an amount owed and a threat to garnish wages. get one maybe once every 1 or 2 years.. i'm guess i should try the probate judge office to see if they have anything

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That does not necessarily mean they can, old loan paper is bought for pennies on the dollar by some very unscrupulous characters. The can, will, and do make threats on loans that are not in fact enforceable by law. Often these threats are not worth the paper they are written on either. It is hard for me to believe a creditor waited 25 years to take action unless it is actually unenforceable. The SOL does not mean collection agencies can't continue trying to collect a debt, they just can't recieve help from the Government to do it. When the SOL is reached garnishment, judgements and such are not available. If a lien existed, the property the lein is secured by can be taken, and bankruptcy does not cancel leins. In any case the lender must provide proof of the debt. It is true that some debts secured by real property can be renewed in some States, but wage garnishment is usually only allowed by the IRS, or a court judgement. I seriously doubt the lender just was patient for 25 years. It is much more likely some collection agency bought some old loan paper for little or nothing. They can send you all kind of threatening letters, but can't follow through with the threats. It does give me pause that your attorney seems to be concerned about it though.

[Anonymous]

Some great information from you both.. going to continue checking into it as soon as I get home today.. I really don't get to speak to my attorney just his assistant and she just happened to ask for my help in finding the info.. I should also add that even though the original debt is about 25 years old.. the Judgment papers would be about 15 years old as far as when I was served the paperwork

[sarge12]

Collection agencies that buy very old debts operate much like scam artist do. They buy thousands of old debts for very, very little and buy a stamp every few years to send threatening letters. If just one in a hundred is scared into paying, they make a profit...sort of like throwing a hundred darts at a dart board hoping one sticks. That is also why individuals with a foreign accent claim to be sending the Sheriff to arrest you if you don't buy a gift card to pay your IRS debt. It only differs in the respect that the collection agency is not usually breaking laws to issue empty threats. The fake IRS folks are breaking many laws to take advantage of often elderly citizens, but since they are in other Countries they can't be brought to justice. There are things debt collectors can do that are illegal, but empty threats of garnishments that can't be obtained is not one of them. In my opinion, most likely this debt is just one of hundreds of darts being thrown at a dart board, hoping 1 will hit a target.