Property Liens after Chapter 13 discharge

[raisemysc0re]

I have been discharged from Chapter13 since Jun/2016 but have since found out that there are 2 liens executed against my house.

I want to Re-Fi to take advantage of a much lower % rate (6.5 -> 3.5) but these liens are killing me.

The 2 liens are executed against 2 credit cards from before BK and are not enforcable.

My BK lawyer is telling me that they are only good for 6 years which would end just 5 or 6 months from now.

But... the executions are showing 20 years before expiring and the registry of deeds is telling me the same.

The only other option is to re-open my case to clear the liens which my lawyer seems like either I shouldn't do or he just does not want to do it???

I ended up only paying 2.5 years of my 5 year plan because not enough of my creditors protested.

I'm not 100% sure that the company holding the liens was included and that is why the lawyer does not want me to re-open?

What could I be opening myself up to if I re-open the case just to close the liens?

If they weren't included, could they protest and make it so I have to pay them?

Would my Discharge date change to the new discharge date or stay they same (June/2016)?

[despritfreya]

“The 2 liens are executed against 2 credit cards from before BK and are not enforcable. . . I'm not 100% sure that the company holding the liens was included and that is why the lawyer does not want me to re-open?”

Then they may very well be enforceable under State law and not subject to avoidance under 11 USC 522(f) should you reopen your case. Look at your bankruptcy schedules. If you listed the creditors they would appear either on Schedule D or Schedule F and the Master Mailing Matrix.

“If they weren’t included, could they protest and make it so I have to pay them?”

Yes. If the creditor did not have knowledge of the bk then the creditor was not given the opportunity to file a claim and participate in what ended up to be a 100% payment of “allowed claims”. The discharge does not apply to the creditor since its due process rights were violated and the creditor has the right to collect under State law.  See 11 USC 1328(a)(2) and 11 USC 523(a)(3).

“Would my Discharge date change to the new discharge date or stay they same (June/2016)?”

Reopening your case does not revoke the entry of your discharge. Your discharge will remain valid but does not apply, and will never apply, to any omitted creditor that had no knowledge of the bk in sufficient time to file a claim.

You do not mention what State you are in so there is no way to say whether or not the judgment lien will expire in a few months or several years. Nor can one say whether or not the judgment lien can be renewed as the ability to renew is provided for by State law. Lastly, and again because you failed to tell us where you reside, there is no way to know if you have a homestead exemption that will, under State law, not bk law, protect you from paying the obligation when you re-fi (even if it does, the lender may still require payment or simply refuse to lend.)

Des.

[raisemysc0re]

I live in Massachusetts...

[despritfreya]

Thank you for indicating that you are in Massachusetts. It is understandable that there is confusion as to whether or not the judgments are still “alive”. A quick Google search shows that your State has at least two Statutes that may conflict.

Massachusetts General Law Chapter 235 Section 17 (MGL c.235 §17), in part, states:

An original execution shall not issue after the expiration of one year after the party is first entitled to take it out; and an alias or other successive execution shall not issue after the expiration of five years from the return day of that which preceded it. Subject to section twenty of chapter two hundred and sixty, alias or successive executions shall be of full force and effect for five years from the date thereof unless satisfied in whole or discharged by law.

Massachusetts General Law Chapter 260 Section 20 (MGL c.260 §20) states:

A judgment or decree of a court of record of the United States or of any state thereof shall be presumed to be paid and satisfied at the expiration of twenty years after it was rendered.

As it relates to Chapter 235 Section 17, sorry to say, but it appears your State's legislature has no understanding as to how to formulate a cohesive and understandable sentence.

Just reviewing these two provisions makes your head spin. Either a judgment is good for 5, 6 or 20 years. Not sure. Nor do I know how or if a recorded judgment lien impacts this. You need to sit down with an attorney who actually understands your State’s laws.

Sorry I could not be of more assistance.

Des.

[raisemysc0re]

I appreciate the attempt.

I think I will have to talk with another BK attorney other than the one that got me into this mess in the first place.

I am trying to make sense of my Report of Reciepts and Disbursements and I see the 2 original creditors but it states them as "Not Filed".

I know the orignal creditor sold the accounts off but I don't see the agency they were sold off to anywhere on any BK document I have.

Something tells me that I am screwed...