AMEX Gold Pre-Approved but Denied

[Anonymous]

Hi all, I've been looking into the AMEX Gold vs the CSP card with a trip or two coming up and finally decided on the gold card tonight as I'm already an existing member with AMEX of almost 3 years so just about every card is pre-approved for me. Like I said, pulled the trigger tonight using a referral link from TPG because the signup bonus window was extended from my 3 months to 6 months. Got an immediate denial (soft pull) with no explanation then an email saying they've come to a decision and to check on their website which never works so I couldn't even find reasoning there. Called one of AMEX's lines and was told nothing more can be done due to all of my information being the same and to try applying again in a few months when I turn 21 to include my parents' income to give a better shot. Any advice or has anyone had a similar experience? Do I try calling again or not bother? Trip will be too soon to bday to book so it's now or never for the near future. Not even sure why I'd get the denial as it's been about 6 months since my last card (BB Visa) and I only have two inquiries with one disappearing in a month or so, let alone get no information on why.

For background:

- Scores across the board sit around 760 with ~11%? utilization

- Cards as of today: Citi AAdvantage MileUp 2018 ($0/1.5k), Citi AAdvantage Platinum ($145/2.25k), AMEX BCP ($190/3k), Discover IT Student ($-300/5.4k), Best Buy Visa ($650/4k), Barclays Apple Card ($0/1k), Deserve Student Card ($14/3.5k)

- Other Financial Details: Chase Auto Loan, Student Loans (Less than $6k), Retirement Account through work, Savings, Stocks, etc.

[FinStar]

I would give it about 48-72 hours and check the website again just to see what the denial reason(s) were or just wait for the letter for additional information.

https://www262.americanexpress.com/eaol/welcome.do

[Anonymous]

What is your reported income? You don't have to post it, but I ask so you consider that. Charge cards often are seen as cards for people spending considerable amounts of money per month and income may be a limiting factor in that regard.

One other note - do not include your parents' income in your apps. I don't care what the rep told you, that's not legal, nor is it the intention of the clause on the site that you were referring to when turning 21. Their income is not yours and is not under the expectation that you have unrestricted access to it. That is intended for married couples to be able to claim spousal income since there's a likelihood that they share bank accounts and thus have regular access to that money. If you can't claim it on your personal income taxes, don't claim it on your applications. Some issuers (including Amex) will at times request income verification which is done by obtaining tax transcripts from the IRS, and if the numbers don't match, your accounts are closed. Stick with only the income your taxes show that you earn.

[Anonymous]

My income is close to $25k by myself, so I can understand where the income would most likely be a factor but I pay off my cards in full unless I have a 0% interest anyway so I figured a charge card with benefits that I could make use of would be a good way to go. And in response to including my parents' income, I agree and wouldn't have gone through with that as I've had Citi ask for financial proof like you stated and thought it was an odd suggestion coming from the rep and appreciate your input. 

[Anonymous]

The charge cards are great in that they don't count toward utilization on the more recent scoring models (they do on mortgage scores), and your payment behavior is what you'd use for them anyhow. Definitely check the link provided above by @FinStar in a couple days or wait for the letter in the mail. If you'd like, post your list of reasons on the letter as a response in this thread (keep them in the order they're listed on the letter) and we can see about helping you identify which of them are most likely the "real" reasons and help figure out a pathway to an approval.

A CSR advising you to include their income is definitely not good but sadly it isn't odd - many CSRs seem to know very little about the industry in which they work, and that can be really devastating to people who don't know better, especially in the credit world.

[Anonymous]

Great I'll check it in a few days and get back. Thanks for the input again

[Harvey26]

@Anonymous  Sorry about your denial. I would go into a local Chase Branch if you have one and see if you are preapproved for the CSP. If not  you could make the decision if you are willing to pull the trigger on the card. 

[Ficoproblems247]

Just another thought (and I could be off) but maybe on a younger profile AMEX algorithms may be concerned with 4/7 cards reporting a balance, even though it seems as OP's util is safely in check? Maybe see if you could get to AZEO, or at least AZE2 before the next app? Also, with existing membership and AMEX doing SP I would think it's also possible that they're using a dated report for their decision. Just a couple other thoughts that popped in my head. That means that even if you clean your profile up exactly the way you want, you may have to leave it that way for at least a month for their back end pull to catch up with what they're using for their decision. 

[dogmeat]

Based solely on your income, I'd say the Amex Gold is a bad choice.

$250/yr annual fee is 1% of your gross income. That's pushing it unless there is extraordinary value here somewhere.  Most people's rationalization for doing something like this would be "yah, but I can use all the credits, and a bunch of offer$, so it's free!"  And it's true that does work for some people.  I would argue that it is more financially savvy to approach it from the opposite direction: Do the math, and see if the card is at least break-even for you, ignoring the credits/offers.  Then treat any value you get from credits/offers as gravy.

To break-even without credits/offers, you'll need enough annual in-category spend to earn enough points, which is one half of the equation to offset the annual fee over, say, a no-AF 2% card (which, even if you don't have, you could alternatively get).  In addition, you must redeem points once annually (since you pay the AF annually), at a favorable redemption rate that is the other half of the annual-fee offsetting equation.  The magic number here is somewhere around/between 6k and 8k of in-category spend, depending on your redemption rate.  Do you think you will spend at least $500/mo on grocery/dining on the card?

Even if your answer is an emphatic 'Yes', at $6-8k/yr in-category spend, you're earning around 24k-32k MR/yr.  Enough to redeem annually?  Sure, there may be some opportunity to get a RT plane ticket on a deal, with that amount.  But it feels to me like you are occupying one small small space in the lower left corner of the MR system with this level of spend.  Could you make it work?  Yes, certainly.  Is there a big benefit here?  No, not likely.  Is it financially savvy?  For the majority of people with your income (there are always exceptions), not particularly, in my opinion.

Alternatives?  To "get in" to Amex you could try applying for the no-AF Hilton or Delta (Blue) cards.  You'll get some SUB points, you'll start building history with Amex, and the Gold will likely be a SP for you when you finally are ready for it.

[Anonymous]

You're right she I think that is a better way to think of it, as I was going off of being able to use all of the credits worth $240. Plus I pay the $95 for my BCP and make its worth back easily by being my primary card, so having another one with an even higher AF would definitely require some work outside of the credits. Thanks