Applying for a AMEX Personal Credit Card

[bigseegar]

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@leo187um wrote:

Not to sound like an arrogant **bleep** but I'm 34 now and have cash to garden. I'm thinking if I deposit a bunch of cash in chase and Amex (20kusd ) that'll be enough to show them I got the cash.

Ive been an expat since I was 21 (closed a boa credit card I had when I left the states); came back to the states last Nov for work and executive mba. I opened the three bank accounts and applied for the credit cards at all three institutions.

i got a bunch of credit card pre approvals in the mail and applied to them not knowing about the credit card game (recently started watching YouTubers about the game/strategy). I don't think the average person knows what are premium cards vs subprime cards nor the impact of hard inquiries on future applications. 

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First, $20K isn't squat to AmEx or Chase. Heck 10X that isn't squat to either. You can't "buy" your way into AmEx or Good credit. Again only time and proper credit usage will do that, not any amount of money. Having cash or cash on deposit doesn't mean you'll be a good steward of credit necessarily. You'll be much better positioned as we have explained to just Garden for 9 months to a year and let your current credit do the work for you. Then regardless of cash on deposit you may get what you want. I have 6 Amex cards including the Platinum, Gold and Green and have (on and off) since 1994 and I have never deposited a dime with AmEx, including when my business failed in 2002 and AmEx Blacklisted me until 2021 and I got all of those cards back. So, we speaking from direct AmEx experience. But you seem to not want our advice as you try and counter it. IDK, but good luck as I said and if you'll take the advice here that you ask for it will work. Those Youtube guys, not so much many times.

[leo187um]

I'm not countering the arguments just want the logic behind the arguments being made. 

I know 20k isn't squat to these institutions but having cash in these banks should give them more incentive to give me a card with a big limit vs someone with no cash all else equal (think risk management, worst case scenario if we give him 10k as a credit limit and he defaults, we can take it from the balance he has in our bank). Also the banking model allows them to lend out 10x their deposit amount so depositors have more value to the banks. 

Like, if I have a **bleep**ty fico score with a bad payment history I understand waiting a year but my fico is 730+ with no missed payment or and negatives... 

[blossom_rebuilding]

It really looks like the credit seeking is the sticking point for Amex just now, and as other have said, the only way to remedy that is to let the inquiries age. Inqiuiries lose a good chunk of their weight after 12 months, and once they are gone from your reports in 24, you should be golden. I can't speak to the impact of the CDs you have opened, but once you are an Amex customer in one respect, you should get offers for other products once they see you are a good customer (I've had an Amex since 2006, and once my scores were relatively high I started getting inundated with credit card and personal loan pre-approvals).

I can only speak from personal experience, but it seems to me that once Amex has decided there is a red flag in your profile, they won't move off that position until that red flag is eliminated. In my case, during my original rebuild I had many credit card delinquencies, and even though I had ALWAYS kept the Amex current with no lates, they decided that my overall profile was too risky and balance chased me down to $4800. It wasn't until all the lates were off my credit report and overall utilization within 30% that I started getting CLIs. This took YEARS for me to do, but as I said, once the risk element (in Amex's view) was gone, I started getting a lot more offers and my credit limit has increased.

I think you are fortunate that the time horizon for inquiries is actually so short at 12 months by comparison. I know it feels like a long wait, but since the Amex risk algorithm has tagged you for credit seeking, it won't budge away from that. I really think gardening is your best bet to reach your goal.

[bigseegar]

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@leo187um wrote:

I'm not countering the arguments just want the logic behind the arguments being made. 

I know 20k isn't squat to these institutions but having cash in these banks should give them more incentive to give me a card with a big limit vs someone with no cash all else equal (think risk management, worst case scenario if we give him 10k as a credit limit and he defaults, we can take it from the balance he has in our bank). Also the banking model allows them to lend out 10x their deposit amount so depositors have more value to the banks. 

Like, if I have a **bleep**ty fico score with a bad payment history I understand waiting a year but my fico is 730+ with no missed payment or and negatives... 

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With all due respect this is my last response to you because you clearly are not hearing/comprehending what we are telling you on the question you ask. So, again with all due respect just do it your way since you're going to anyway. 

We HAVE given you "the logic behind the arguments being made". that logic over and over is that building good credit that lenders freely give CL's and Cards to takes time and work. You even answered you own question with you last question. You were denied an AmEx card with your "730+) Fico Score. Why/ Because your 730+ is what is called in the lending world a "Thin File 730+' and that's because it's VERY young and unproven. That's exactly why we are telling you to Garden and Groom your file. In the credit world AGE + proper handling of credit is everything. Example. You put $20K on file with AmEx and apply with your Thin File 730+. A person with a 20 year old 700 score both with perfect payments and the same income but only you with a cash deposit. I guarantee you that 700 will be approved Instantly and for a higher SL. It's all about the complete file....not just the score itself. 

Again and my final Good Luck

[uncredited]

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@leo187um wrote:

- With Chase, I recently opened a CD and deposited 1000 in it...I've had a checkings/savings/credit card all back in 11/2021..what would be the optimal strategy for me to build a strong relationship so I could get one of their premium cards (Sapphire Reserve and eventually business Ink); I recently applied for a credit limit increase via app but got rejected - when should I ask for another one? 

I think it got lost in the noise of the rest of the discussion, but I noticed nobody commented on this piece here.  Chase, as far as I know is always a hard pull for limit increase requests, so that actually just added another hard inquiry unless you included that in the 11...

I'll chime in on the rest only slightly, I'm also a thin young file, and I'm a little infamous here for taking months and hundreds of posts before I make ANY moves at all, because I never want to risk the wrong decision, because I know how fragile thin, young files are, and how easy it is for anything to rock the boat, so I'm the opposite, possibly detrimentally at times, problem of your file. 

But the main thing to remember is credit and credit scores are not a measure of wealth or buying power, they're a measure of trust.  That gets easily forgotton.  A pauper earning minimum wage with no assets can have better credit and more approvals (at lower limits) than  multi-millionare with multiple homes and boats because the pauper managed their little funds well, and the millionare did not over the years. You're not trying to demonstrate you have a lot of money.  You're trying to demonstrate you can be trusted with someone elses money for a long time with no hassle. If you had a friend, even a rich friend, even if that friend is a celebrity, and you watched them go to eleven, now twelve different people and ask to bum a few grand off them, and each time they get rejected they ask someone else, and then they finall get to you, you're going to really wonder why this rich friend is so desperate for a few grand they're asking everyone that will listen. And you haven't even known this friend for a whole year yet.  You might be a bit reluctant to say yes.  Something seems off about this person asking so much for money even if they don't seem to need it.  Maybe especially because they don't seem to need it. You can either just say "no" and  your life continues unaffected by whatever is or isn't going on with that person, or you can say "yes" and get entangled in who knows how much stress.  The answer is easy. 

On the other hand if that same friend you've known for 20 years and know everything about them and know they're solid....maybe you'll be more likely to assume it's all for a good reason and give it to them. They know 11 months of things about you and they know you've asked 12 of their friends for cash.........why exactly would they trust you when you hit them up?

It sucks, I know.  Having a thin young file and knowing you can't be on the stable ground you want to be on for 5, 10 years and all the while you have to walk on eggshells trying to earn that trust and second guess everything is miserable.  There's a lot of us in that boat.  But other than inventing a time machine and not making any wrong moves ever, there's no other way through it. The kids that started as AUs at 13 get off really lucky here. Everyone above is right. I'm maybe TOO risk averse for my own good at times, but, there really isn't that much better a way to do it.  Those inquiries need to go.  Advancing the calendar is really the only way to do that. It does suck. 

[SouthJamaica]

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@leo187um wrote:

My credit score is 730 on Experian/Transunion.

I applied for a AMEX business gold account on 11/7/2022 and got rejected. 

My oldest account (which I closed stupidly) is 2.2 years old (FNBO 3000 limit).

My oldest active account is 11 months old (Bank of America).

At the moment I have three credit cards open: BoA Unlimited Cash VISA credit card (6000 limit), US Bank Cash VISA Signature (2000 limit), and Chase freedom (500 limit). New to the credit card game, I opened a CreditOne, Indigo, and Premium One Credit (all sub 500 limits) after I opened the Chase; I have closed these three cards as they have low limits, annual fees, and overall subprime image.

I also have an Upstart personal loan I opened on 3/2022 (7800 balance), and paid off two Opportun personal loans.

The rejection letter stated that I have too many hard inquiries over the past 12 months, and too many consumer loan accounts (the three subprime crdeit cards and one Opportun loan was still reporting when I applied). I also made the mistake of applying for a business credit card before applying for a personal credit card with Amex.

I was thinking that applying for the Amex Platinum Card around Apr/May 2023 would be the bets decision (have some time from my recent inquiry) . Wanted your guys' advice as to whether I should pay off my Upstart loan before applying as consumer finance accounts seem to have a bad image even despite my high credit score; would it matter if I only had one Upstart account as long as I make my payments each month? Also, is there a good credit card you guys can recommend with a 0% APR to go alongside my AMEX Platinum? I want to ensure that I can apply for another Chase card after 11/2023 taking into account Chase's 5/24 rule..

Thanks!

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The best things you can do for now are:

1. lay low on new applications for awhile

2. pay your Upstart loan down to 9% of the original loan amount but NOT close it; and

3. keep utilization low, with either US Bank or BOA card reporting small balance each month while the other two report zero per month

[leo187um]

Thanks, but I only have three credit cards open now... I was thinking if I can't apply for a year, I should keep usage on boa/usbank low while maximizing usage on my chase (as limit is 590) while paying off my balance every month by for six consecutive months and then asking for a limit increase (soft check on the app).

Also would getting an aged authorized user for Amex help me in my situation? Heard it's useful for those with young profile but high credit scores. 

thanks .

[FinStar]

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@leo187um wrote:

Not to sound like an arrogant **bleep** but I'm 34 now and have cash to garden. I'm thinking if I deposit a bunch of cash in chase and Amex (20kusd ) that'll be enough to show them I got the cash.

Ive been an expat since I was 21 (closed a boa credit card I had when I left the states); came back to the states last Nov for work and executive mba. I opened the three bank accounts and applied for the credit cards at all three institutions.

i got a bunch of credit card pre approvals in the mail and applied to them not knowing about the credit card game (recently started watching YouTubers about the game/strategy). I don't think the average person knows what are premium cards vs subprime cards nor the impact of hard inquiries on future applications. 

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Just as an aside, deposit relationships seldomly influence any CC underwriting decisions. The banking relationship is established, sure, but plenty of institutions don't consider them as an influence of nudging an approval, especially with Chase and/or AmEx. From time to time it's possible they can target your profile for some offers but it depends on marketing campaigns, your overall relationship profile, internal behavioral scores, etc.

[leo187um]

Can you shed some light as to what these banks look for then (when you mention behavior stats).

Having deposits in the bank makes sense to me as it shows that this person has cash in the bank and it could be perceived as a form of reserve for the lender in the case the borrower cannot repay.. Woulnt you feel for comfortable giving a 20k limit to someone that has 50k in the bank vs 5k in the bank all else equal? 

[FinStar]

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@leo187um wrote:

Thanks, but I only have three credit cards open now... I was thinking if I can't apply for a year, I should keep usage on boa/usbank low while maximizing usage on my chase (as limit is 590) while paying off my balance every month by for six consecutive months and then asking for a limit increase (soft check on the app).

Also would getting an aged authorized user for Amex help me in my situation? Heard it's useful for those with young profile but high credit scores. 

thanks .

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No if you're referring to AmEx AUs.

If you're added as an AU from someone else's AmEx account, the history of that particular account is not migrated to your credit profile. It will be treated as a new account when it's added to your reports. Also, AmEx doesn't consider any AmEx AU history as an influence or condition of a credit decision.