Basic question regarding "Hard Pulls" and certain Creditor's rules

[HowDoesThisAllWork]

So, I am learning to be a better credit consumer. Have learned a lot - mostly from my friend and from this forum. But, I have a rather basic question. I believe that I know the answer but it is an assumption for me at this point (and my daddy taught me a LONG time ago what happens when you assume).

Would like to use my credit information for a concrete example. Please find below the existing Hard Pulls from the three different CRAs:

EquiFax Hard Pulls:

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1 July 4, 2021 Capital One

2 September 7, 2020 CitiBank

3 April 24, 2020 CitiBank

Experian Hard Pulls:

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1 July 4, 2021 Capital One (55 days after Bank of America)

2 May 10, 2021 Bank of America

3 June 23, 2020 Credit One

4 December 6, 2019 Discover

Transunion Hard Pulls:

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1 August 20, 2021 NFCU (47 days after Capital One)

2 July 4, 2021 Capital One (73 days after Lowes)

3 April 22, 2021 Lowes

4 May 28, 2020 Total VISA

5 May 09, 2020 Surge MC

So, if a creditor uses, say, Experian for a credit card approval then they see *ONLY* the Experian-reported Hard Pulls and - in my case as of today - they see four HPs.

If I were to apply for a Chase Card (assuming for this example that Chase uses Experian for this process) then I would *NOT* violate their 5/24 rule and, as such, pass that test and proceed on to the next. The app for the Chase card would be the 5th and I would still be within their 5/24 rule. Correct?

If, however, Chase uses Transunion, then I would indeed violate their 5/24 rule and would be IMMEDIATELY declined. Because the Chase app would be #6 and that is the kicker. Correct?

I know that this is SUPER basic, but I want to be 100% confident in my knowledge (especially with this....Daddy taught me that if the foundation is strong then there is always a good chance....but with a weak foundation you are doomed from the start! I like success! Been down the "doomed" road before - can not recommend it.).

Thanks, y'all!

[cashorcharge]

In a nutshell...

If Bank X pulls EX...that bank will only see those INQ's...they won't see where another bank pulled TU or EQ.  You have that correct.

Some banks "double pull" so depending on their process and decision, they may pull EX and TU and therefore would see the variation on both.

The 5/24 rule with Chase is NOT tied to Inquiries, it's tied to accounts.  If you apply for 5 cards that all pulled EQ, theoritically, once those accounts are open, they will begin reporting to all 3 CB's...hence even though they pulled EQ, the accounts would show up on EX...and therefore, you would be beyond 5/24.  If you applied for 10 cards, 4 with EX, 4 with TU and 2 with EQ but only 1 of those cards was approved, that counts as 1 towards your 5/24.  Remember, that rule is tied to new accounts, not inquiries and though a bank may pull a different report, if it's opened, it will report to all and then...if you go to Chase to apply, they would see that you've opened 5 accounts within 24 months and likely not get approved.

Lastly, when it comes to SCORING, the INQ's are only scoreable for 12 months so on the 13th month, while the INQ will still be there, it should not have an adverse effect on your score.  At the 24 month mark, the INQ disappears.

[dragontears]

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@cashorcharge wrote:

In a nutshell...

If Bank X pulls EX...that bank will only see those INQ's...they won't see where another bank pulled TU or EQ.  You have that correct.

Some banks "double pull" so depending on their process and decision, they may pull EX and TU and therefore would see the variation on both.

The 5/24 rule with Chase is NOT tied to Inquiries, it's tied to accounts.  If you apply for 5 cards that all pulled EQ, theoritically, once those accounts are open, they will begin reporting to all 3 CB's...hence even though they pulled EQ, the accounts would show up on EX...and therefore, you would be beyond 5/24.  If you applied for 10 cards, 4 with EX, 4 with TU and 2 with EQ but only 1 of those cards was approved, that counts as 1 towards your 5/24.  Remember, that rule is tied to new accounts, not inquiries and though a bank may pull a different report, if it's opened, it will report to all and then...if you go to Chase to apply, they would see that you've opened 5 accounts within 24 months and likely not get approved.

Lastly, when it comes to SCORING, the INQ's are only scoreable for 12 months so on the 13th month, while the INQ will still be there, it should not have an adverse effect on your score.  At the 24 month mark, the INQ disappears.

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This exactly 

[FinStar]

@HowDoesThisAllWork  - Just for clarification, the Chase 5/24 restriction is not in reference to Hard Pulls. It pertains to the number of opened tradelines, specifically revolving accounts, in the past 24 months. Mortgage, home equity loans, student, personal loans, etc., are excluded from the count.

Also, Chase tends to double pull CRAs in a variety of cases, so they'll be able to see the inquiries on both reports in addition to those accounts opened in the past 24 months.

[HowDoesThisAllWork]

@FinStar @dragontears @cashorcharge 

Thank you, everyone.  See?  This was not what I was assuming.

So, Chase (to be very specific with them because they are my "goals" company.....along with AMEX) looks at *OPEN* accounts.  So, if I were to have only four open credit cards at the moment, then technically I could apply for a Chase Credit Card and not experience an immediate "deny" due to the 5/24 rule.

And, to say things from a different perspective (I know, I know...I am beating a dead horse in the mouth here....but since I have your attention at the moment), the four credit cards that I opened in the last two years BUT have since closed (all rebuilder cards....) would not count against the 5/24 rule (because they are closed.....).  Correct?   Chase - or whoever - would still see the HPs for them, but there would be no associated Revolver.

I am a PITA at times - I concede that.  I just like to look at things from different angles so that there is as close to perfect clarity as an old man can have!  LOL

[dragontears]

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@HowDoesThisAllWork wrote:

@FinStar @dragontears @cashorcharge 

Thank you, everyone.  See?  This was not what I was assuming.

So, Chase (to be very specific with them because they are my "goals" company.....along with AMEX) looks at *OPEN* accounts.  So, if I were to have only four open credit cards at the moment, then technically I could apply for a Chase Credit Card and not experience an immediate "deny" due to the 5/24 rule.

And, to say things from a different perspective (I know, I know...I am beating a dead horse in the mouth here....but since I have your attention at the moment), the four credit cards that I opened in the last two years BUT have since closed (all rebuilder cards....) would not count against the 5/24 rule (because they are closed.....).  Correct?   Chase - or whoever - would still see the HPs for them, but there would be no associated Revolver.

I am a PITA at times - I concede that.  I just like to look at things from different angles so that there is as close to perfect clarity as an old man can have!  LOL

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Incorrect. 

Speaking of chase specifically, it is revolving accounts that have been opened in the last 24 months, it doesn't matter if those accounts are currently open or closed,  i.e. closing new accounts will not bring you under the 5/24 rule 

[HowDoesThisAllWork]

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@cashorcharge wrote:

Lastly, when it comes to SCORING, the INQ's are only scoreable for 12 months so on the 13th month, while the INQ will still be there, it should not have an adverse effect on your score.  At the 24 month mark, the INQ disappears.

Understood.  That part I had (but thank you for the clarification as you sure do not know what is in my head....It is wierd up in there!  Not sure that you want to know! LOL).

My experience has been that when I apply for a new credit card that first the HP is alerted and I loose between three to seven points for that and then the credit card is issued and whatever happens.  Then, around 13 months later - as you stated - those 'three to seven points' magically reappear (score increase alert).

And, at 24 months | 25 months the HP disappears completely.  

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[FinStar]

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@HowDoesThisAllWork wrote:

@FinStar @dragontears @cashorcharge 

Thank you, everyone.  See?  This was not what I was assuming.

So, Chase (to be very specific with them because they are my "goals" company.....along with AMEX) looks at *OPEN* accounts.  So, if I were to have only four open credit cards at the moment, then technically I could apply for a Chase Credit Card and not experience an immediate "deny" due to the 5/24 rule.

And, to say things from a different perspective (I know, I know...I am beating a dead horse in the mouth here....but since I have your attention at the moment), the four credit cards that I opened in the last two years BUT have since closed (all rebuilder cards....) would not count against the 5/24 rule (because they are closed.....).  Correct?   Chase - or whoever - would still see the HPs for them, but there would be no associated Revolver.

I am a PITA at times - I concede that.  I just like to look at things from different angles so that there is as close to perfect clarity as an old man can have!  LOL

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No, you're not a PITA at all @HowDoesThisAllWork.  This is how we all learn  

These are very good question since it can help others understand some the processes (or restrictions) that some lenders tend to use.

So, the Chase algorithm looks for any revolving personal accounts (includes V/MC/D/AX, store accounts, personal and/or overdarft lines of credit, etc.) that were opened in the past 24 months, and even if you closed some of those cards, they still count toward the 5/24 restriction, unfortunately.  The algorithms are going by the open date (regardless if you've already closed any of them).

[HowDoesThisAllWork]

@FinStar 

Well, see?  We are getting closer and closer to "perfect clarity"!  LOL.

I appreciate everyone's input and I really hope that others in the same boat as I (trying to be a better credit consumer....and education, regardless of context, is always part of that process) have learned something new via my questions.

[cashorcharge]

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@HowDoesThisAllWork wrote:

@FinStar 

Well, see?  We are getting closer and closer to "perfect clarity"!  LOL.

I appreciate everyone's input and I really hope that others in the same boat as I (trying to be a better credit consumer....and education, regardless of context, is always part of that process) have learned something new via my questions.

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There's a ton of great information here, you just need to search it out.  You can find lots of info on both AMEX and Chase, rules, options, strategies etc.  

If your heart is set on Chase and you're at 4/24 (meaning new accounts opened...regardless of whether you've already closed them) then when your scores, Utilization and Debt to Income are all in alignment, carefully select and apply.  They used to have a PreQual page but it's been reported that it has been taken down.  If you bank with them, check under MY OFFERS to see if they are prepping you for something.  IF you decide to forego slot 5 with Chase and go to AMEX, they have a prequal site that you can see how well you'll do and they are typically solid, meaning if they say "You're preapproved" the likelihood is that you really are.  Good luck in your journey...