Chase Amazon Prime data points

[BrutalBodyShots]

I hear you @Aim_High regarding score nuances. I'm a hobbyist when it comes to that stuff, but it's not super typical

@Thomas_Thumb, I'm not sure I've ever seen an 850 on FICO 8 while on a New Revolver scorecard. Have you experienced that personally, or are you speaking to other data points? Whether your profile or that of someone else, do you recall the other optimization they had in place at the time? I'm assuming AZEO, an open/"significantly paid down" installment loan, aging metrics maxed out, etc. If we believe the New Revolver scorecard is worth 15-25 points (which I agree is a good estimate) then that would suggested a buffered 850 could "real world" be built up to (say) 875.

[Thomas_Thumb]

Obviously not me! I don't open new accounts.

There have been a few poster data points on this over the years. They reported opening a new account and score remained at 850 with the account reported. The 1st data point I recall was back in 2016 was from a poster named Oilcan. He had a thick file with 36 credit cards and multiple open loans - details not known. He changed his profile name in 2017 as I recall and later became anonymous due to inactivity. 

There were also a couple in the last couple years - they both had a lot of revolvers and multiple loan types on file. 

Side note: In my prior post I wrote "a" score drop where I meant "no" score drop. Unfortunately, I was unable to edit the post even though I caught the error today. That concerns me because it gives the opposite meaning of what was intended.

[NoHardLimits]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

There have been a few poster data points on this over the years. They reported opening a new account and score remained at 850 with the account reported. The 1st data point I recall was back in 2016 was from a poster named Oilcan. He had a thick file with 36 credit cards and multiple open loans - details not known. He changed his profile name in 2017 as I recall and later became anonymous due to inactivity. 

There were also a couple in the last couple years - they both had a lot of revolvers and multiple loan types on file. 

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When I had an open mortgage loan, I was able to achieve 850's on FICO8 while on a new revolver scorecard.  Since paying off my last installment loan, 850 has not been achievable unless I had no new revolvers.  FICO9 is entirely different as 850 has been reachable even with a new revolver.

[BrutalBodyShots]

Thanks for the info, @Thomas_Thumb. I'm always intrigued by files that are able to produce an 850 and the ingredients that go into them. That stinks that you can't edit your post. Perhaps reach out to the mods for an assist? And yes, I forgot that you don't open new accounts

@NoHardLimits when you achieved 850 with your open mortgage, do you recall the installment loan utilization percentage at the time that you were able to first grab 850? That's interesting that you were able to maintain 850 even on a New Revolver scorecard.

Are you saying that since moving back to  a No New Revolver scorecard post-loan payoff that you've been able to achieve an 850 again with no open installment loan? That would be pretty profund data if so, IMO.

[Thomas_Thumb]

That is correct. He can reach 850 on EX Fico 8 without an open loan and no new revolver. However, a new revolver without the open loan drops score from 850. In contrast, my read is he can reach Fico 9 850 without an open loan and with a new revolver. He has more CCs than I do.

I regained 850 on EX Fico 8 and EX Fico 9 with no open loans. My EX F9 can hold 850 up to 3 of 5 cards reporting balances. Need to be AZE1 for EX F8.

I am unable to regain 850 on EQ and TU F8 since my mortgage closed. Those scores stall out at 844-845 and are typically 837-841.

I don't have data on F8 score before Feb 2014. TU F8 score from Discover was 850.  B/L was just over 52%.

[NoHardLimits]

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@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

Thanks for the info, @Thomas_Thumb. I'm always intrigued by files that are able to produce an 850 and the ingredients that go into them. That stinks that you can't edit your post. Perhaps reach out to the mods for an assist? And yes, I forgot that you don't open new accounts

@NoHardLimits when you achieved 850 with your open mortgage, do you recall the installment loan utilization percentage at the time that you were able to first grab 850? That's interesting that you were able to maintain 850 even on a New Revolver scorecard.

Are you saying that since moving back to  a No New Revolver scorecard post-loan payoff that you've been able to achieve an 850 again with no open installment loan? That would be pretty profund data if so, IMO.

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I only started tracking FICO8 classic scores in 2015.  During that year, I was able to achieve 850's across the board for 3 months.  I don't recall the exact loan utilization of my mortgage at that point, but I was 3 years into a 15 year mortgage that was a refi at roughly 70% LTV.

Yes, I have been able to achieve an 850 on Experian even without an open loan.  My last open loan was paid off in 2018, and I had an FICO8 Classic of 850 as recently as 2024.

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

If we believe the New Revolver scorecard is worth 15-25 points (which I agree is a good estimate) then that would suggested a buffered 850 could "real world" be built up to (say) 875.

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I did some analysis of this on my own profile back in the day. I compared changes in my Auto and Bankcard scores for Fico 8 and 9 from all 3 CRAs against their corresponding Classic Fico buffered 850 counterparts.

Number of cards reporting balances was increased. Some changes in high card utilization crept in as well. I then looked at how much the industry option scores dropped while holding corresponding the Classic 850. 

Based on this methodology the 850 buffer ranged between 10-25 points. Unfortunately, some Classic scores never dropped from 850. Also, the behavior of the industry option overlay can influence findings. At face value, a buffer of up to 30 points might be available.

[BrutalBodyShots]

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@NoHardLimits wrote:

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Yes, I have been able to achieve an 850 on Experian even without an open loan.  My last open loan was paid off in 2018, and I had an FICO8 Classic of 850 as recently as 2024.

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Good to know, @NoHardLimits. What were your corresponding TU/EQ scores at the time? Also, what did your AWB% / utilization look like when you hit 850? Were you implementing AZEO (optimizing) or was it just with organic reporting? I ask because we know that on clean files EX8 doesn't care about AWB%, so you may not have been penalized there but perhaps were on TU/EQ.

@Thomas_Thumb that sounds like a reasonable estimate of possible buffer potential. 

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@NoHardLimits wrote:

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@BrutalBodyShots wrote:

@NoHardLimits when you achieved 850 with your open mortgage, do you recall the installment loan utilization?

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I only started tracking FICO8 classic scores in 2015.  During that year, I was able to achieve 850's across the board for 3 months.  I don't recall the exact loan utilization of my mortgage at that point, but I was 3 years into a 15 year mortgage that was a refi at roughly 70% LTV.

Yes, I have been able to achieve an 850 on Experian even without an open loan.  My last open loan was paid off in 2018, and I had an FICO8 Classic of 850 as recently as 2024.

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By my estimate, 3 years payments on a 15 year loan still left you with a B/L ratio (installment utilization) above 80% - assuming a 4.5% apr.

[BrutalBodyShots]

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@Thomas_Thumb wrote:

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By my estimate, 3 years payments on a 15 year loan still left you with a B/L ratio (installment utilization) above 80% - assuming a 4.5% apr.

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I suppose that would just make attaining an 850 all the more impressive if so. It's possible that they paid extra over those 3 years though to chip away a the balance quicker perhaps.