Citi Reconsideration

[Lancelot99]

So I did an app spree recently, my first, and was approved for all but Citi Double Cash.  I had just paid off all my balances and waited long enough to report FICO 8 scores of EQ 815, EX 816, TU 823.  I applied for Citi first, followed immediately by Chase, Penfed, and Capital One (Venture One).  I had read C1 pulls all 3 CRAs so I app'ed C1 last.  Citi had a clean slate.  I had no inquiries showing at all.  I haven't app'd for new credit in almost 10 years.

I had $69,100 available in total credit and was showing a $3 balance total across all cards.  Citi did not approve my app but I finally got their letters today.  I was actually so surprised by Citi's denial that I actually immediately applied again using their latest pre-selected to apply letter.  That's how I got 2 letters from Citi today.  :-(

The first letter says: We reviewed your application and can't approve it because of the following reasons: - Your credit report shows no recent revolving balances.  - Your credit report reflects a lack of recent installment loan information.  It also told me my credit score was a 813 and their credit scores range from 250 to 900.

The second letter says: You have submitted multiple applications for credit.

How I got here.  I had burned Citi back in 2006 maybe, a CO for maybe a couple of thousand.  I had a couple of med coll's fall off last year and those were paid.  My score started to climb and I got into the habit of paying a day or two before the due date so the lowest balance possible was showing, i.e. my new purchases were getting paid off along with some of my old debt.  I waited for the scores to rise and double checked them all before applying.  I do not have any installment loans: no mortgage, no car loans.

So here are my Qs:

1) I really want to recon Citi because I actually wanted this the most.  I did a search and find no recon's like mine, with scores in the 800s and declined for no recent revolving balances.  They're saying I don't use my credit but I definitely did until I finally paid everything off.  I pulled my free Experian report off of AnnualCreditReport.com a day ago and it shows some of the cards used to carry balances before I paid them off.  6 months ago, I was still carrying like $5-6k across all cards.  How do I approach this?  I need to find the thread with the back door number and just plead my case.  There's no template, right?  And I can't find other situations like mine...

2) Might Citi's denial be code for "you burned us 12 years ago and now you can't have our card"?  That definitely crossed my mind.  I read Citi has a memory.  No mention of it in the denial though.

3) So a pre-selected to apply letter is different than a pre-approval letter.  That was just a stupid miss by me.  I haven't applied for a new card in 10 years and I failed to notice.  Not really a Q, just a note about my lack of experience.

4) I have 30 days to recon from the date of decline, right?  And Citi uses a 250 to 900 credit scale?  So 813 out of 900 actually doesn't sound that great.  I thought all FICO scores were on a 300 to 850 scale.

Thanks for all your thoughts and comments ahead of time.  I'd like to recon Citi ASAP so your advice is much appreciated.

[Gmood1]

Hopefully someone has a back door number for Citi and will post it. Sorry to read of your denial.
Plenty of us here have burned Citi in the past and were allowed back in, me being one of them.
From your description, it sounds like you were using that AZEO technique to boost your scores?

Citi uses the FICO 8 banckcard scoring model. Your scores are more than fine.

I've mentioned this before, that AZEO isn't a credit builder. Please, please allow more than $3 to report across your accounts if you want the banks to take you seriously.
I'd suggest allowing your balances to report naturally unless your utilization will be over 29% on one CC. 1 to 9% across all revolving accounts is the sweet spot.
The banks seem to be catching on slowly to folks trying to manipulate their scores. In a manual review, $3 reporting on nearly $70k revolving doesn't look good. It doesn't make you look like someone who uses their CCs. Which makes it not worth the banks time to issue you their card.
Scores alone do not make you a prime candidate.
Showing them you aren't afraid to use CCs and manage them properly will have a much, more favorable outcome with these banks. Than getting wrapped up in a few points gained from allowing $3 to report across all of your accounts.
Here's a link to the sticky in this sub forum https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Card-Applications/Backdoor-Numbers/td-p/408066 . I don't know how up to date these numbers are.
Congrats on your other approvals.

[Anonymous]

Citi EO direct line is 605 331 1698.

I applied for AA Biz last week and got denied; slow / late payment??  which I could not find on my CR.   Called EO for recon and she called me back two days later to inform me the app was approved.   Very friendly preson....

[Lancelot99]

I thought it was because I burned them but there's no mention of it in their denial letter.  I guess I should just take it at face value and it is because they think I don't use the CCs enough.  I really do though.  It has been at least 12 years now since I burned Citi.  I was reading for Citi, it's usually about 10.

I had no idea what AZEO was until I Googled it.  You've always been great sharing knowledge like this since I started posting.  I learn new stuff every time I read your posts.  :-)

Yes, I didn't think it was the scores.  800+ by any measure seems to be pretty good.  Just weird to me that they were on a 300 to 900 scale.

To be honest, I was trying to get $0 to report, haha!  The $3 was an accident.  It was the last interest charge from the last card I paid off.  It was unexpected, LOL.

I charged about $3000 this month.  Do you think I should I let it show up before calling the recon line?

Yes, I saw this link.  I wondered if these numbers were current and which Citi number to call.  There's so many!

Thanks!

[Lancelot99]

Thank you for the number.  I wonder what people did before the internet and friendly people like you would share invaluable information like this?  Thanks, very grateful!

[Gmood1]

Lol, from now on allow your usage to report is my advice. Pay it off after the statement cuts, if it makes you feel better. Or let it ride untill right before due date and initiate auto pay. Either way it's paid on time.
If something hadn't reported. You'd have taken a credit score hit. Your scores are penalized when all CCs report zero balances. This credit stuff works just the opposite of what you'd think. 
Your CR's need a heartbeat. Without usage/blood flow it will slowly die.

You have a small window in order to Recon. Chances are they'll use the pull they already have.
The system may have auto denied you the second time. You can only app once in 8 days I believe with Citi. Please, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I know there's a time frame. No more than two Citi CCs in 65 days allowed.
Please call and explain your case. Hopefully a human will over turn the first denial.
I burned Citi 9 years ago. It hasn't held me back much, if at all.

[Anonymous]

Sorry to hear you were denied for the Citi DC; as others have suggested you should recon the denial.

.I also second Gmood1's suggestion about letting balances report naturally.  You can still avoid paying interest by paying the full balance by the due date if that's the concern you're addressing by pre-paying.  The only caveat is that you should not let more than 50 percent of your cards report balances or your scores will be penalized and a negative code "Too many accounts reporting balances" will appear on your credit report.

Fortunately, utilization has no memory and as you pay off the reported balances you will recover the lost points and the reason code will be removed, if it ever occurs.

Good luck with your recon.

[Lancelot99]

So I want to be clear on this because all my current CCs work this way.  For example, Discover's due date is the 2nd, the statement closing date is the 6th.  Pay the minimum on the 1st and then the balance charged last month on the 7th?

What I had been doing was paying off all new charges and whatever I could afford on the 1st and then refraining from charging anything until the evening of the 6th so the lowest amount possible amount was reporting since the reporting was happening on the 6th, the same as the statement closing date.  I figured I wouldn't get charged interest this way and it would show the lowest utilization possible.  For the zero balance cards, I would use them and then pay them off by the due date.  This way I thought I was utilizing the float and not paying any interest AND showing low utilization.  Perhaps I misunderstand how long the float is or you're saying it's worth it to pay a single day's worth of interest?

It does make sense that they want to see utilization of some kind.  I just thought the HPs of the CRs showed the usage and the important thing was to not be late.

I'm going to recon today.

Yes, I thought the time for Citi to get over it was about 10 years and I'm at 12.  Citi only seems to HP 1 CRA and here it looks like they only pulled Experian.  I was willing to take the chance of a single HP but I figured the denial would be because I burned them and not because it looks like I don't use the cards enough.

Thanks so much!

[Lancelot99]

So I want to be clear on this because all my current CCs work this way.  For example, Discover's due date is the 2nd, the statement closing date is the 6th.  Pay the minimum on the 1st and then the balance charged last month on the 7th?

What I had been doing was paying off all new charges and whatever I could afford on the 1st and then refraining from charging anything until the evening of the 6th so the lowest amount possible amount was reporting since the reporting was happening on the 6th, the same as the statement closing date.  I figured I wouldn't get charged interest this way and it would show the lowest utilization possible.  For the zero balance cards, I would use them and then pay them off by the due date.  This way I thought I was utilizing the float and not paying any interest AND showing low utilization.  Perhaps I misunderstand how long the float is or you're saying it's worth it to pay a single day's worth of interest?

It does make sense that they want to see utilization of some kind.  I just thought the HPs of the CRs showed the usage and the important thing was to not be late.

I'm going to recon today.

Yes, I thought the time for Citi to get over it was about 10 years and I'm at 12.  Citi only seems to HP 1 CRA and here it looks like they only pulled Experian.  I was willing to take the chance of a single HP but I figured the denial would be because I burned them and not because it looks like I don't use the cards enough.

Thanks so much!

[Lancelot99]

I do have some confusion about the balances reporting.  The reporting dates are always a few days after the due dates.  So I'm only paying the minimum on the due date and the balance after closing?

I have 6 cards.  With your advice, I should only 3 report a balance?  I do that now already.  I spread the usage around.

Then total utilization should be between 1-9% across all 6 cards and on each card individually?