Need Some Amex Advise

[Anonymous]

Correct. I applied for Gold in October, denied...waited 30 days and denied again. The Platinum through CAP was also 30 days past the second Gold denial. Then like an idiot I applied for the Reserve and Cash Back Preferred in the next few mins thinking it was a different product.

Maybe got some bad advise that you can just apply again 30 days later. The only reason I can see for the denials is credit. So yeah. I'll just wait it out now. Ill wait till my Amex Gold ages to 6 months in April (which would also put me 90 days out to these denials)

Or I might just not apply at all. Grapes are sour and what not.

[KJinNC]

IMO, just check preapprovals and apply when it shows that you are preapproved for the specific card you want, and you'll be fine. My guess is that you might need to wait a month or two, possibly more depending on profile, to start seeing preapprovals on the charge cards.

I'm tempted to paste in my lengthy list of Amex application statuses, but it might inadvertently reveal personal info ... suffice it to say, it is a long list, and it includes some events that might seem to violate conventional wisdom, such as approvals for a card days after denial for the same card, or denial for a different card. I did notice what I believe to be a couple of timing issues, though. 1) I think you have to wait a month after opening your first personal card before you can get your second personal card (but you are already over a month). 2) I had to wait six months after opening my first personal card, which was Gold, to open another charge card, in my case Platinum. I do not know if it matters that the first card was a charge card.

[Anonymous]

If I pasted my history here, you would see... DADDDCC (denied, approved, denied, denied, denied, cancelled, cancelled). Like an old Nintendo cheat code.

I'll give Amex sometime. My score is on the rise because my new accounts are slowly aging and their payment histories are kicking in.

I only had 1 credit card in my profile and was told thats no way to build credit. So I opened 2 more (CapOne and the Delta Amex). So both are pretty new. But as soon as those payments started hitting my credit my score started to shoot.

I almost want Amex to come to me now.

[Anonymous]

While we are on the subject of Amex.  I am wondering about something else.  How does Amex view payment history that is outside of "pay balance" payments?

Let me explain my question: I only have a $1000 limit on my Delta Amex.  So I naturally have to pay it a few times a month to keep using it.  I do this to show Amex (1) that I am needing a higher credit line and can afford to keep paying back, and (2) show high usage on my card so they can open up the others.  That being said, are mid month payments when something is not due, even counted as payments? Does Amex see that? by the time the statement closes, I really have no balance on the card because I want my utilization to be reported close to 0%.  That being said, when the statement cuts and they see that I dont owe anything - does that go against me and they figured I am not using the card? because the mid month payments are some how invisible even though I am passing through about $2500 to $3000 through the card with a $1000 limit.

Maybe that is too out there, but just wondering. 

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:
Correct. I applied for Gold in October, denied...waited 30 days and denied again. The Platinum through CAP was also 30 days past the second Gold denial. Then like an idiot I applied for the Reserve and Cash Back Preferred in the next few mins thinking it was a different product.

Maybe got some bad advise that you can just apply again 30 days later. The only reason I can see for the denials is credit. So yeah. I'll just wait it out now. Ill wait till my Amex Gold ages to 6 months in April (which would also put me 90 days out to these denials)

Or I might just not apply at all. Grapes are sour and what not.

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@Anonymous A denial for a credit-related reason requires a 90-day wait before reapplying; any application before then will be automatically rejected by Amex's system.  I'd advise waiting until your Experian FICO 8 score is at least 670.  Why 670?  That's the threshold where your credit rating transitions from "Fair" a.k.a. sub-prime to "Good."  Amex isn't a sub-prime player even though they will sometimes approve applications with sub-prime scores if there are mitigating circumstances.

One thing to note is not to apply as soon as the score shown in your online account reaches 670.  The reason is that the score used by Amex underwriting is not the score shown in your account.  Underwriting uses the score from your last soft pull and that typically lags the online score by about 3-4 weeks.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

While we are on the subject of Amex.  I am wondering about something else.  How does Amex view payment history that is outside of "pay balance" payments?

Let me explain my question: I only have a $1000 limit on my Delta Amex.  So I naturally have to pay it a few times a month to keep using it.  I do this to show Amex (1) that I am needing a higher credit line and can afford to keep paying back, and (2) show high usage on my card so they can open up the others.  That being said, are mid month payments when something is not due, even counted as payments? Does Amex see that? by the time the statement closes, I really have no balance on the card because I want my utilization to be reported close to 0%.  That being said, when the statement cuts and they see that I dont owe anything - does that go against me and they figured I am not using the card? because the mid month payments are some how invisible even though I am passing through about $2500 to $3000 through the card with a $1000 limit.

Maybe that is too out there, but just wondering. 

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@Anonymous Amex doesn't care as long as they get paid.  Making multiple payments is actually a plus because Amex's business model is predicated on catering to transactors rather than revolvers i.e. people who pay in full rather than carry monthly balances.  Amex keeps a record of your payments so no need to worry about that; its other creditors who review your credit report that will not see the multiple payments. 

What you don't want to do is pay from several different payment sources as that could raise questions about money laundering.

[Anonymous]

Great advise. Thank you.

But translation to what you said: if I got declined for a Platinum, I should wait another 90 days to apply for anything else, say Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant regardless if the message says "you are pre-approved" when you click on the apply.

And, when the score updates in the Amex site, wait another month for good measure for it to also update with the underwriting people?

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:
Great advise. Thank you.

But translation to what you said: if I got declined for a Platinum, I should wait another 90 days to apply for anything else, say Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant regardless if the message says "you are pre-approved" when you click on the apply.

And, when the score updates in the Amex site, wait another month for good measure for it to also update with the underwriting people?

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I'd say as long as your Experian FICO 8 score is below 670 to wait before applying for anything else.  Of course you may be approved but you'd likely be stuck with a small credit limit of $500 or $1,000.  Also, Amex's marketing and underwriting are frequently not on the same page so even though you might see the pre-approved message when you click on a card, the underwriting criteria is usually stricter than the screening done by marketing for pre-approvals.

So...Yes, to both your questions.

[Anonymous]

Ok. One more thing. I just pulled up the denial letter from the last application that got denied and it's showing Jan 15th for their FICO reference and the score is also from that date (same date that's it's my Amex "check your credit score" dashboard. So they do seem up to date.

Does the letter not refer to underwriting score used? Or is that some other obfuscated process that no one knows about?

So confusing.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:
Ok. One more thing. I just pulled up the denial letter from the last application that got denied and it's showing Jan 15th for their FICO reference and the score is also from that date (same date that's it's my Amex "check your credit score" dashboard. So they do seem up to date.

Does the letter not refer to underwriting score used? Or is that some other obfuscated process that no one knows about?

So confusing.

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The adverse action notice i.e. the letter you received should show the date of the last soft pull and the score used by underwriting.  That it coincides with the date your score was updated in your online account is probably just an accident.