Proof of Address - Utility Bill

[lindsaydruart]

I'm not seeing how it's not. It's establishing residence. I don't have a utlity bill in my name and didn't when I first moved with my now husband so the lease was all I had to prove domicile. Considering my contribution to the household was the rent amount and more, I'm not seeing how it's not legitimate. It's legalizing the situation for that person's protection. I have never just lived with anyone all willy nilly. Have always had a lease, enforced or not.

[Anonymous]

---

@lindsaydruart wrote:

I'm not seeing how it's not. It's establishing residence. I don't have a utlity bill in my name and didn't when I first moved with my now husband so the lease was all I had to prove domicile. Considering my contribution to the household was the rent amount and more, I'm not seeing how it's not legitimate. It's legalizing the situation for that person's protection. I have never just lived with anyone all willy nilly. Have always had a lease, enforced or not.

---

I see where you are coming from interms of protection when living with someone.  But we are talking about it being good enough for the bank to use as verification. For example, suppose I am couch hopping a few days from friends to friends as I need a place to crash.  Although, I sleep on the couch a few days a week from house to house, I have enough pride to not want to eat their food so I decide, let me get myself a credit card whilst I try to sort my life together.  I then apply for  Chase card and now it is time verification.  Do you think if I go no the internet and get a random template for a lease, have my friend sign it that I live there [ knowing I am probably staying a day or two] is the right thing to do?

No, it isn't. Of course everyone's case is different but it is the moral imperative that is important here. That coupled with other reasons why most banks don't accept leases because of the implications.

Legally binding agreements have different meaning...

[1] Signed, Witnessed, Notarized document - Very Strong. Difficult to deny.

[2] Signed, Witnessed document - Still very strong since both parties know that a witness may testify under penalty of perjury.

[3] Signed document - Strong. One party can claim the signature was forged. If a lot of money is on the line, expert handwriting witnesses can be paid to determine the authenticity of the signature.

[4] Unsigned document - pretty weak. Easily deniable by either party. (I've never even seen that document!!!)

[lindsaydruart]

In the instance of someone doing this while they are couchsurfing, of course not. That would be fraud. I didn't get the hint from OP that this was the case. I don't think OP said at all why they don't have anything they can provide with the address. For me and mine, I have always had the signing witness and notarized at my banking institution, but again, for me, it was more for my protection and I think I only had to use the lease once to validate my address for a county service and they knew I had just moved. Someone hanging out on couches needs a PO Box and should probably focus on their living situation before they focus on their credit report.

[JSS3]

My brother lives with my mother in a house she bought 17 yrs ago. He's moved in and out over the years. He's been back for about a year now working and saving up. He is supposed to pay her, but he doesn't. He doesn't pay any utility bills so they are not in his name. She added him to het cellphone plan(which he doesn't really pay).

He has his long time driver's license with mom's address on it proving residency. Chase's fraud department asked for proof(after 2 week message) and it was faxed in. They followed up with asking him for a utility bill. So even a driver's license with the address isn't enough. He has a Chase checking account too.

[lindsaydruart]

---

@JSS3 wrote:
My brother lives with my mother in a house she bought 17 yrs ago. He's moved in and out over the years. He's been back for about a year now working and saving up. He is supposed to pay her, but he doesn't. He doesn't pay any utility bills so they are not in his name. She added him to het cellphone plan(which he doesn't really pay).

He has his long time driver's license with mom's address on it proving residency. Chase's fraud department asked for proof(after 2 week message) and it was faxed in. They followed up with asking him for a utility bill. So even a driver's license with the address isn't enough. He has a Chase checking account too.

---

This is an instance where a lease might be all he can do. Bank criteria doesn't always fit real life.

[JSS3]

@lindsay

Mom is ready to throw him out(for the millionth time). She's going to cut off his cellphone and has to pay the 600 for the phone. She is so not in the mood to do him any lease favors. LoL and Yikes.

Just surprised a valid driver's license with one's name, picture, D.O.B. and address isn't the ultimate form of proof.

[Anonymous]

---

@lindsaydruart wrote:

In the instance of someone doing this while they are couchsurfing, of course not. That would be fraud. I didn't get the hint from OP that this was the case. I don't think OP said at all why they don't have anything they can provide with the address. For me and mine, I have always had the signing witness and notarized at my banking institution, but again, for me, it was more for my protection and I think I only had to use the lease once to validate my address for a county service and they knew I had just moved. Someone hanging out on couches needs a PO Box and should probably focus on their living situation before they focus on their credit report.

---

@Most banks don't deliver to a P.O Box and I was just using that statement as an example.  @Anonymous also gives a solid reason.  Your responses are based on your experiences alone and what you deem is right thus, a lease being good enough to use as verification.  But banks don't see it that way..

[Anonymous]

Agree with Yes-its-me. Also, many banks will not accept a lease as proof of residency - since a lease form that can be printed online clearly does not really prove any kind of residency.

[myjourney]

---

@lindsaydruart wrote:

---

@myjourney wrote:

Suggestions that someone should go out and fake/create their own lease document weather it's there actual address or not and then submit that phony document to a lender for approval of an account would be considered fraud to obtain credit IMHO 

---

Anytime you live with someone that you are not married to, you SHOULD have a lease, whether the lease is enforced or not because that establishes residence. That doesn't make the document fake. It's just not necessarily enforced. Without a lease, your residency can be up for debate and if that person wants to put you out of the house, they can, without legally evicting you, which would suck if you had no where else to go. The lease, enforced or not, is a document for legal protection, even outside of a lender.

---

Fraud is fraud no matter how it's bent, white lie or if created via a $2.00 printed paper

Making a document for no other reason but to obtain credit is not a white lie but true deceit......

Let me also enlighten you as to what you have done ....

The what if moment: 

Lets just say you are successful at gaining access to the lenders credit via the small white lie forged document

You don't think it will be thrown in the garbage when they review it now do you?

No it will be scanned into the system as part of your file/application. .....

Now you will admit that you did it to deceive the lender correct to obtain the credit line?

Now lets say you've had great history always paid your bill for 2 years then the bottom drops and you lose your financial means to pay and declare BK

Here's what you didn't see when they come to court with forged doc's and they discovered you fraudulently created a document to obtain the loan....

Guess what no court is going to help you shed the debt under BK......didn't see that coming did you? Lol 

Or maybe they approach the other party on the document and its you EX who can't stand you now crap your broke they don't want no parts of you .......

"oh hell naw I'm not going to jail" Sing Chorus sing....Lol

It ain't happening in the eyes of the law your hands are not clean and you defrauded the lender......so now what do we have..

A loan you still owe 

Fraud charges probably and a record to go with it

Jacked up CR's with fraud listed on them 

No lender will ever again touch you 

All because you went online and created basically a false identity for the price of a piece of paper and some ink

Fraud no matter how you slice it

[lindsaydruart]

So...it's fraud to have a document stating you have agreed to live in a house with someone and pay bills in said house? I could understand if you used someone's address and you didn't live there or you put down money that you don't spend but to live in a house with someone you aren't married to that you are paying money into the house and have no legal protections in the case of issues is just stupid. It may not be sufficient for a bank but the document itself isn't fraud. If you are producing it with fraudulent information or fraudulent intent, then sure but the document itself isn't. It's nothing more than a template to assist small business or personal transaction. If a lease template is fraud, then so is a resume template or a bill of sale template and every template on RocketLawyer is fraud.