AMEX QUESTION FOR YOU ALL

[CreditCrusader]

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@bs6054 wrote:

And also:

This is why lying about income or any other piece of information just to score an Amex is as futile as lying about income on your taxes to score a higher refund. Sooner or later, your lie will catch up to you and your magical credit card will vanish.

There's actually no evidence of this either.  For all I know, everyone except me lies on their taxes and credit card application, and only 0.000001% get caught.  Or maybe very few lie, and 99.9999% of those that do get caught.   No way of knowing.

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If by "this", you mean no evidence that people lie about income on tax returns for personal benefit, I surely hope you are joking. The IRS ( the U.S. government agency responsible for tax collection and tax law enforcement) exists for the same reason Amex has an FR division: to make sure both minimize losses.

And again, with all due respect, if "for all I know" is the bar you set to make rational determinations, you'll likely live a life of unexpected follies from start to finish. At some point, logic and reason must supercede what you BELIEVE to be true...and the truth is, people LIE about information on financial documents from time-to-time. To believe otherwise is, IMO, extremely naive

or perhaps I am just cynical...probably a combination of both...who knows.

OK...NOW I'll exit stage left, as I agree with the OP's recent post that this thread has degenerated from its original purpose. For that I apologize, for I was an instigator of the diversion of discussion.

[bs6054]

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@CreditCrusader wrote:

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@bs6054 wrote:

And also:

This is why lying about income or any other piece of information just to score an Amex is as futile as lying about income on your taxes to score a higher refund. Sooner or later, your lie will catch up to you and your magical credit card will vanish.

There's actually no evidence of this either.  For all I know, everyone except me lies on their taxes and credit card application, and only 0.000001% get caught.  Or maybe very few lie, and 99.9999% of those that do get caught.   No way of knowing.

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If by "this", you mean no evidence that people lie about income on tax returns for personal benefit, I surely hope you are joking. The IRS ( the U.S. government agency responsible for tax collection and tax law enforcement) exists for the same reason Amex has an FR division: to make sure both minimize losses.

And again, with all due respect, if "for all I know" is the bar you set to make rational determinations, you'll likely live a life of unexpected follies from start to finish. At some point, logic and reason must supercede what you BELIEVE to be true...and the truth is, people LIE about information on financial documents from time-to-time. To believe otherwise is, IMO, extremely naive

or perhaps I am just cynical...probably a combination of both...who knows.

OK...NOW I'll exit stage left, as I agree with the OP's recent post that this thread has degenerated from its original purpose. For that I apologize, for I was an instigator of the diversion of discussion.

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I think you miss the point.  You made a very strong claim.

This is why lying about income or any other piece of information just to score an Amex is as futile as lying about income on your taxes to score a higher refund. Sooner or later, your lie will catch up to you and your magical credit card will vanish.

i.e. if you lie (on taxes or applications) you WILL be caught.  Allowing for hyperbole, I will view this as "It's very likely that you will be caught".

And to know this to be true, you obviously need to know the relative numbers of those that lie and those that get caught.   The IRS and Amex can certainly give you the second figure.  But not the first.   There is the normal law enforcement bias to suggest great effectiveness (we catch nearly all of them!) but there is no real way to know (just ways to estimate with various models).

So, your comment:  . At some point, logic and reason must supercede what you BELIEVE to be true..   is, to me, ironic, given your very strong statement, with only the support and the truth is, people LIE about information on financial documents from time-to-time. To believe otherwise is, IMO, extremely naive

which no-one disagrees with.  The question is, how big is the set compared to those that get caught.

[LisaJ]

I actually rounded down and then took some more off what I reported on my 1040 for good measure. Having had a CO with Amex years ago, they more than have grounds to FR me. That's not to say I want the hassle, nor that I'd be happy about it, but I am pretty realistic about the possibility. That being said, I also don't see any reason to ask for a 3x CLI on day 61 as I can't imagine needing such a huge line of credit, which would surely be like begging for a FR, given my initial line of $11k.

[eviLution]

I know I'm gonna apply for an AMEX in the future and I'll gladly provide a pint of blood from a virgin if necessary. You really have nothing to hide when you're honest......like OMG! AMEX is gonna find out that I really make only 18k a year and I'm gonna be embarassed about it everytime I call up customer service. FML!

[LisaJ]

Lol, eviL!!!

[enharu]

Most of the people who were FR'ed did something out of the norm or even shady: loading prepaid cards to abuse rewards, lying on app about income and/or other stuff, application sprees, out of the world spending appropriate for the user's income level, owing high balances across other card(s), etc.

There's usually a good and reasonable justification on why people get FR and this rarely ever happen to "normal" users. Income verification is another separate process but is always confused with FR.

[reckedhim]

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@bs6054 wrote:

And also:

This is why lying about income or any other piece of information just to score an Amex is as futile as lying about income on your taxes to score a higher refund. Sooner or later, your lie will catch up to you and your magical credit card will vanish.

There's actually no evidence of this either.  For all I know, everyone except me lies on their taxes and credit card application, and only 0.000001% get caught.  Or maybe very few lie, and 99.9999% of those that do get caught.   No way of knowing.

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As a tax auditor, I feel that most people are very honest on their tax returns.

[bs6054]

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@reckedhim wrote:

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@bs6054 wrote:

And also:

This is why lying about income or any other piece of information just to score an Amex is as futile as lying about income on your taxes to score a higher refund. Sooner or later, your lie will catch up to you and your magical credit card will vanish.

There's actually no evidence of this either.  For all I know, everyone except me lies on their taxes and credit card application, and only 0.000001% get caught.  Or maybe very few lie, and 99.9999% of those that do get caught.   No way of knowing.

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As a tax auditor, I feel that most people are very honest on their tax returns.

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Yes, probably.  But still hard to tell.  You detect the dishonesty you detect.  Hopefully that is most of it, because, again hopefully, the number of really skilled deceivers are small.  But maybe there is a way to evade detection that a lot of people use....

[reckedhim]

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@bs6054 wrote:

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@reckedhim wrote:

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@bs6054 wrote:

And also:

This is why lying about income or any other piece of information just to score an Amex is as futile as lying about income on your taxes to score a higher refund. Sooner or later, your lie will catch up to you and your magical credit card will vanish.

There's actually no evidence of this either.  For all I know, everyone except me lies on their taxes and credit card application, and only 0.000001% get caught.  Or maybe very few lie, and 99.9999% of those that do get caught.   No way of knowing.

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As a tax auditor, I feel that most people are very honest on their tax returns.

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Yes, probably.  But still hard to tell.  You detect the dishonesty you detect.  Hopefully that is most of it, because, again hopefully, the number of really skilled deceivers are small.  But maybe there is a way to evade detection that a lot of people use....

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Yea, I'd like to think we catch a lot of the dishonest people but there's no way to tell. 

[09Lexie]

@evil

Just one pint of blood from a virgin? ROFLMAO!