American Express Relationship

[BronzeTrader]

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@Graz1214 wrote:

Good evening all-

i have an Amex question for the group. Back story. 

630/640. not great but it is what it is. Income on paper. 

6 months ago I was pre approved for a delta gold and a delta platinum. I grabbed them both. **bleep**ty limits on each, 1000 on gold and 1700 platinum. I put the money on the gold to qualify for welcome offer and have done the same for the platinum. Actually, I have tried to literally buy my relationship with Amex and have officially just put 50k through this card two days before my six month anniversary. Got the second boost with the mqm which was nice too. 

I do a ton of travel for work and I have been itching to have a traditional platinum charge in my wallet for some time. 

how ever, I tried the soft pull app the other day and was declined. I was also declined a credit line increase in both cards. Very frustrating on the delta platinum as it's been getting about 8500-10k a month on it. I cycle the card multiple times in the month, and NEVER leave it with a balance. I think the highest balance that got reported was like 200.00 accidentally. 

what else do I need to do to get this guys to trust me. 

scores are held down for some foolish decisions and behaviors from a few years ago. I have about two more years before a few things drop off and I'm in the 700's again...

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This is how you ruined your own credit.  Before and now, again.

Look, you put $50k on one of the two cards.  Say it is the higher CL Delta Platinum card with $1,700 CL.  At $50k over 6 months, you average $8,333 each month.  At $1,700 CL, you at least cycle your credit line 5x times.  That is clearly a red flag of credit desperation.  It is a No No.

Just do not do that.  No large CC banks will allow you to do that.  They will hold your total CL low until you show that you have the solid credit profile.  Before they open more CL to you.  Credit line recycling is a big no no.

At this point, you should show CC banks that you are a responsible card holder.  Keep spending smooth.  No big up and down.  When your profile improves, CC banks will open door for you.  Before that, just do not over-do it like what you have been doing now.

Good luck.

[AlanGJP]

So, I'm going to take a different tact than the other replies here. Mainly because I was/am in a similar boat as you.

Look at my sig...

During my rebuild I was turned down for multiple Amex cards. I eventually became an AU on my DW's Gold. Shortly later I app'ed and was approved for a Delta Gold, with (like you) a $1k SL. Fine, I thought... at least I have my own Amex now and I can build a relationship. About a year later (after being turned down multiple times for CLIs on my Delta) I app'ed and was approved for my own Gold with NPSL. I dropped the AU and over the next year or so... I now have 9 Amex cards with various SLs.

My Delta however... they won't bump it up, not at all. Didn't matter if I ran nearly $10K/mo through it. (That was fun with a $1k limit) I even went ahead and PC'ed to the Platinum, thinking that would nudge them. Nope. I'm always denied a CLI, despite multiple CLIs on other Amex cards and receiving new cards with high SLs.

My last CLI request was last month, so I have a bit to go before I can request another. My thinking at this point is that that card is somehow bucketed or limited. (Flagged as approved with a sub-700 fico?) It's the ONLY Amex that won't move, no matter what I do. I've NEVER carried a balance on any of my cards, my scores since getting the delta have gone from around 680 to 760+ with not a single missed payment. There's something afoot with this card.

If they deny another CLI, as soon as I hit my renewal I'll probably drop it. I don't really have any immediate need for the card, but will likely re-app after 6-12 months pass.

That said, who knows... maybe they jump me to $10K+ when I hit that CLI button next time. I've been shocked before.

[Graz1214]

Don't take this reply as attitude- genuinely asking a question here.

yes cycling the credit line for sure. It's not from a state of credit desperation, it is from a state of the contrary. Showing big spend and the ability to immediately repay. I have done a fair amount of research on credit cycling, and I have gotten very mixed responses about to its damage to the credit profile. If repaying in full what is it from the financial institutions perspective that is showing them anything but the ability to pay?

[mrphilli]

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@Graz1214 wrote:

Don't take this reply as attitude- genuinely asking a question here.

yes cycling the credit line for sure. It's not from a state of credit desperation, it is from a state of the contrary. Showing big spend and the ability to immediately repay. I have done a fair amount of research on credit cycling, and I have gotten very mixed responses about to its damage to the credit profile. If repaying in full what is it from the financial institutions perspective that is showing them anything but the ability to pay?

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I totally buy the logic that you wrote in the above quote. However, look at it from a different perspective that American Express (or any company extending credit to you) might take. Is that income/money to pay off that high spending always going to be there? Even if you know it should (and hopefully will) be, they can't be sure of it. This kind of uncertainty is even tougher to overcome when a cardholder has negatives in their credit history.

This has already been mentioned in this thread, but granting a CLI to someone with baddies who is engaging in high spending and credit cycling on a low limit card creates an opportunity for additional risk in this economic climate. With interest rates rising, these companies are looking for every reason to tighten their belts and not expose themselves to extra risk (and possibly losses). Simply put: I wouldn't be shocked if it is just safer for them to make you jump through the hoops of managing a lower limit than you'd like at this moment.

And, honestly? I can't blame them for doing that. They're the ones extending credit to you, I, or anyone else. It is their sandbox, so I'm okay with being responsible for not making a mess in the surrounding grass.

I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you to ponder (as it isn't necessary at all for you to explain it on this forum)... Why are you in such a rush to get a CLI on this card? I understand that you do a lot of traveling and having a higher credit limit would be nice (and it would help with your rebuild), but you have those negatives pulling you down, fam! Credit management is not a sprint. It is a marathon.

I feel like the prudent thing to do would be to just leave things as they are. You already know that there negatives that need to fall off before things start to improve in a big way, so let it happen.

I used the words "at this moment" a little earlier in this post; just because you aren't receiving a CLI now doesn't mean that it won't happen down the road. And... If it doesn't happen down the road (your card is bucketed, e.g.), so what? You're already at a better place now than you were when those negatives occurred. Assuming things continue to trend in a positive direction (fingers crossed), more beneficial relationships and products will open up to you. There are plenty of fish in the sea, so just enjoy the waves for now.

[Graz1214]

Appreciate the response. Very well put and a great perspective. I am fairly and objectively looking at the scenario from

the viewpoint you laid out. The line increase isn't a necessity, it's more so out of convenience. It's a pain in the ass managing expense reports, laying out cash to free up space on the card. I have many other cards, I just got consumed with the Amex club and finally being let in. I have given them every ounce of my financial business. Honestly just need the line to be twice what it is to cover two weeks worth of flights and hotels. Haha. Anyways- appreciate it as I said. Good perspective and I will just be patient. 

[BronzeTrader]

With the view from AmEx:

When it opens a CL of $2,000 to you, it is willing to lend you up to $2,000 each month revolving credit.  But now you put on like $10,000 spending over that card.  What would AmEx think about that?  

In general, it is good to spread the spending on several cards.  Maybe like 4-5 etc.  Not over 10 cards with balance (even if you pay off each month).  

The other thing is consistency.  

[Anonymous]

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@BronzeTrader wrote:

With the view from AmEx:

When it opens a CL of $2,000 to you, it is willing to lend you up to $2,000 each month revolving credit.  But now you put on like $10,000 spending over that card.  What would AmEx think about that?  

The other thing is consistency.  

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Is it really spelt out anywhere as a monthly thing?   Certainly that's how most people view it, and I agree about consistency, any deviation from what is expected can cause extra unwanted attention.   But from another viewpoint, all the CL means is that at any moment, you shouldn't owe more than that amount (without permission from the lender, e.g. with flexible spending cards).   So, in that theory, as long as that limit isn't exceeded things are OK.    I also agree with your point that Amex or anyone can question whether the resources will always be there, given that they are expecting low usage with the CL.

My only major experience with cycling CLs on Amex ended badly with Amex closing the card, but I was young(ish) and careless doing MS, spending about 5x my declared income.

[Remedios]

Until your scores improve, you will not have much luck with Amex. 

It's their way of risk mitigation and based on your scores, risk is there and relatively recent negatives. 

Once everything ages, they will probably approve you for other cards with decent limits, this one may or may not grow at that time. 

Amex doesn't care (in fact, they encourage) limit cycling when MS is not involved. They are getting spend without increasing risk of default. 

So, just like you put in your opening post "it is what it is" . You cannot buy their love. 

[Remedios]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@BronzeTrader wrote:

With the view from AmEx:

When it opens a CL of $2,000 to you, it is willing to lend you up to $2,000 each month revolving credit.  But now you put on like $10,000 spending over that card.  What would AmEx think about that?  

The other thing is consistency.  

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Is it really spelt out anywhere as a monthly thing?   Certainly that's how most people view it, and I agree about consistency, any deviation from what is expected can cause extra unwanted attention.   But from another viewpoint, all the CL means is that at any moment, you shouldn't owe more than that amount (without permission from the lender, e.g. with flexible spending cards).   So, in that theory, as long as that limit isn't exceeded things are OK.    I also agree with your point that Amex or anyone can question whether the resources will always be there, given that they are expecting low usage with the CL.

My only major experience with cycling CLs on Amex ended badly with Amex closing the card, but I was young(ish) and careless doing MS, spending about 5x my declared income.

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Good grief, 5x ain't no amateur hour.

Congrats, though 

[RehabbingANDBlabbing]

The other thing no one is talking about in this thread is that AmEx will let you spend over your limit.

I actually prefer the charge cards because I don't have a limit and can charge what I need to, within reason. But a lot of people don't realize AmEx treats their revolvers similarly. You can spend over your limit with them if you have had your account for a while and have a demonstrated ability to repay. This doesn't help with utilization or your credit report, but it may help if you're in a situation where you may need to use your card for more than the credit line. If I'm not mistaken, you can also use the check spending power tool on the revolvers.