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Amex gold question..

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unc0mm0n1
Established Contributor

Re: Amex gold question..


@K-in-Boston wrote:
Also a very valid point if she wishes to be eligible for American Express Welcome Offers in the future. The general thought is that it’s best to at least hold onto Amex cards for 2 years these days.

I literally do this all the time. Maybe I'm lucky but are there data points to back up what you said? I just closed my platinum and business gold. I'm cancelling my Hilton tomorrow. I've had probably 12-14 Amex cards over the last few years and closed most of them (or downgraded them) after the first year. I never pay annual fees except on the BCP. If Amex tried to close me down then I'd just move on to the other card providers. 

Last App March 23, 2015. Gardening until November 25, 2015
Current Score: 766 EX 734 EQ 780 TU 6/30/2015Starting Score/Goal Score: 580s/780s across the board
Message 11 of 34
unc0mm0n1
Established Contributor

Re: Amex gold question..


@red259 wrote:

@K-in-Boston wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@K-in-Boston wrote:
Also a very valid point if she wishes to be eligible for American Express Welcome Offers in the future. The general thought is that it’s best to at least hold onto Amex cards for 2 years these days.

Honestly I never had a problem getting an amex signup bonus and I often close Amex cards after one year, so I don't buy into that theory. I keep all my cards the full first year. I have other amex cards that I keep longer term.


I'm assuming that you have a long established history with American Express and consistently high annual spend like myself.  Amex tends to be more forgiving when you have their other cards for 20 years or more and do things like spend $75k+ in a year on a Marriott card, for example.  Have those also been recent closings and new welcome offers?  This has only been going on for about a year or so.  For the overwhelming majority of users here, I would strongly advise against trying to churn Amex as it doesn't seem to be a long-term strategy that will work for most.  Anybody trying to spend $1,000-$3,000 to get a SUB on their first Amex, never using it again, and closing the card at a year is not going to fare as well.


I'm not spending 75+k on a marriott card. I don't even have their marriott card. I think my oldest amex is like 6 or 7 years old. So my file isn't thin, but by the same token I don't think the logic you mentioned applies to the overwhelming majority of users here. I'm also not sure why someone with limited credit history would be wasting apps on cards that they only are going to keep for a year, because its going to make it more difficult to have a good credit file later on. When building credit the logical thing to do is to target cards that you will either keep when starting out or cards that you will be able to downgrade to keep long term. The value of signup bonuses decreases drastically if you are paying extra AFs on cards that are not worth it to you. 


This is wrong. I started churning 8 years ago. I've had over 60 cards in that time. my credit score was garbage when I started. I had to get a secured card, my credit was so bad. My Credit score hovers around 800 now on all three agencies. Stop spreading this myth. 

Last App March 23, 2015. Gardening until November 25, 2015
Current Score: 766 EX 734 EQ 780 TU 6/30/2015Starting Score/Goal Score: 580s/780s across the board
Message 12 of 34
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Amex gold question..


@unc0mm0n1 wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@K-in-Boston wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@K-in-Boston wrote:
Also a very valid point if she wishes to be eligible for American Express Welcome Offers in the future. The general thought is that it’s best to at least hold onto Amex cards for 2 years these days.

Honestly I never had a problem getting an amex signup bonus and I often close Amex cards after one year, so I don't buy into that theory. I keep all my cards the full first year. I have other amex cards that I keep longer term.


I'm assuming that you have a long established history with American Express and consistently high annual spend like myself.  Amex tends to be more forgiving when you have their other cards for 20 years or more and do things like spend $75k+ in a year on a Marriott card, for example.  Have those also been recent closings and new welcome offers?  This has only been going on for about a year or so.  For the overwhelming majority of users here, I would strongly advise against trying to churn Amex as it doesn't seem to be a long-term strategy that will work for most.  Anybody trying to spend $1,000-$3,000 to get a SUB on their first Amex, never using it again, and closing the card at a year is not going to fare as well.


I'm not spending 75+k on a marriott card. I don't even have their marriott card. I think my oldest amex is like 6 or 7 years old. So my file isn't thin, but by the same token I don't think the logic you mentioned applies to the overwhelming majority of users here. I'm also not sure why someone with limited credit history would be wasting apps on cards that they only are going to keep for a year, because its going to make it more difficult to have a good credit file later on. When building credit the logical thing to do is to target cards that you will either keep when starting out or cards that you will be able to downgrade to keep long term. The value of signup bonuses decreases drastically if you are paying extra AFs on cards that are not worth it to you. 


This is wrong. I started churning 8 years ago. I've had over 60 cards in that time. my credit score was garbage when I started. I had to get a secured card, my credit was so bad. My Credit score hovers around 800 now on all three agencies. Stop spreading this myth. 


Maybe you are flying under the radar with your activity. If you prefer to dispel the myth, you can call customer service and explain what you've done with the cards and ask if the behavior is OK with Amex. Hopefully you'd get a straight answer.

Message 13 of 34
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Amex gold question..


p@Anonymous wrote:

@unc0mm0n1 wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@K-in-Boston wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@K-in-Boston wrote:
Also a very valid point if she wishes to be eligible for American Express Welcome Offers in the future. The general thought is that it’s best to at least hold onto Amex cards for 2 years these days.

Honestly I never had a problem getting an amex signup bonus and I often close Amex cards after one year, so I don't buy into that theory. I keep all my cards the full first year. I have other amex cards that I keep longer term.


I'm assuming that you have a long established history with American Express and consistently high annual spend like myself.  Amex tends to be more forgiving when you have their other cards for 20 years or more and do things like spend $75k+ in a year on a Marriott card, for example.  Have those also been recent closings and new welcome offers?  This has only been going on for about a year or so.  For the overwhelming majority of users here, I would strongly advise against trying to churn Amex as it doesn't seem to be a long-term strategy that will work for most.  Anybody trying to spend $1,000-$3,000 to get a SUB on their first Amex, never using it again, and closing the card at a year is not going to fare as well.


I'm not spending 75+k on a marriott card. I don't even have their marriott card. I think my oldest amex is like 6 or 7 years old. So my file isn't thin, but by the same token I don't think the logic you mentioned applies to the overwhelming majority of users here. I'm also not sure why someone with limited credit history would be wasting apps on cards that they only are going to keep for a year, because its going to make it more difficult to have a good credit file later on. When building credit the logical thing to do is to target cards that you will either keep when starting out or cards that you will be able to downgrade to keep long term. The value of signup bonuses decreases drastically if you are paying extra AFs on cards that are not worth it to you. 


This is wrong. I started churning 8 years ago. I've had over 60 cards in that time. my credit score was garbage when I started. I had to get a secured card, my credit was so bad. My Credit score hovers around 800 now on all three agencies. Stop spreading this myth. 


Maybe you are flying under the radar with your activity. If you prefer to dispel the myth, you can call customer service and explain what you've done with the cards and ask if the behavior is OK with Amex. Hopefully you'd get a straight answer.


Many people say Martin Shreli would never have gotten prosecuted for financial securities issues if he had not made himself a target by heading firms that bought pharmaceuticals and dramatically raised their prices.

Message 14 of 34
Brian_Earl_Spilner
Credit Mentor

Re: Amex gold question..


@Anonymous wrote:

@unc0mm0n1 wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@K-in-Boston wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@K-in-Boston wrote:
Also a very valid point if she wishes to be eligible for American Express Welcome Offers in the future. The general thought is that it’s best to at least hold onto Amex cards for 2 years these days.

Honestly I never had a problem getting an amex signup bonus and I often close Amex cards after one year, so I don't buy into that theory. I keep all my cards the full first year. I have other amex cards that I keep longer term.


I'm assuming that you have a long established history with American Express and consistently high annual spend like myself.  Amex tends to be more forgiving when you have their other cards for 20 years or more and do things like spend $75k+ in a year on a Marriott card, for example.  Have those also been recent closings and new welcome offers?  This has only been going on for about a year or so.  For the overwhelming majority of users here, I would strongly advise against trying to churn Amex as it doesn't seem to be a long-term strategy that will work for most.  Anybody trying to spend $1,000-$3,000 to get a SUB on their first Amex, never using it again, and closing the card at a year is not going to fare as well.


I'm not spending 75+k on a marriott card. I don't even have their marriott card. I think my oldest amex is like 6 or 7 years old. So my file isn't thin, but by the same token I don't think the logic you mentioned applies to the overwhelming majority of users here. I'm also not sure why someone with limited credit history would be wasting apps on cards that they only are going to keep for a year, because its going to make it more difficult to have a good credit file later on. When building credit the logical thing to do is to target cards that you will either keep when starting out or cards that you will be able to downgrade to keep long term. The value of signup bonuses decreases drastically if you are paying extra AFs on cards that are not worth it to you. 


This is wrong. I started churning 8 years ago. I've had over 60 cards in that time. my credit score was garbage when I started. I had to get a secured card, my credit was so bad. My Credit score hovers around 800 now on all three agencies. Stop spreading this myth. 


Maybe you are flying under the radar with your activity. If you prefer to dispel the myth, you can call customer service and explain what you've done with the cards and ask if the behavior is OK with Amex. Hopefully you'd get a straight answer.


We need to keep it FSR in here. Their response was in regards to not being able to have good credit with those behaviors, not whether the behaviors are deemed acceptable.

    
Message 15 of 34
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Amex gold question..


@Brian_Earl_Spilner wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@unc0mm0n1 wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@K-in-Boston wrote:

@red259 wrote:

@K-in-Boston wrote:
Also a very valid point if she wishes to be eligible for American Express Welcome Offers in the future. The general thought is that it’s best to at least hold onto Amex cards for 2 years these days.

Honestly I never had a problem getting an amex signup bonus and I often close Amex cards after one year, so I don't buy into that theory. I keep all my cards the full first year. I have other amex cards that I keep longer term.


I'm assuming that you have a long established history with American Express and consistently high annual spend like myself.  Amex tends to be more forgiving when you have their other cards for 20 years or more and do things like spend $75k+ in a year on a Marriott card, for example.  Have those also been recent closings and new welcome offers?  This has only been going on for about a year or so.  For the overwhelming majority of users here, I would strongly advise against trying to churn Amex as it doesn't seem to be a long-term strategy that will work for most.  Anybody trying to spend $1,000-$3,000 to get a SUB on their first Amex, never using it again, and closing the card at a year is not going to fare as well.


I'm not spending 75+k on a marriott card. I don't even have their marriott card. I think my oldest amex is like 6 or 7 years old. So my file isn't thin, but by the same token I don't think the logic you mentioned applies to the overwhelming majority of users here. I'm also not sure why someone with limited credit history would be wasting apps on cards that they only are going to keep for a year, because its going to make it more difficult to have a good credit file later on. When building credit the logical thing to do is to target cards that you will either keep when starting out or cards that you will be able to downgrade to keep long term. The value of signup bonuses decreases drastically if you are paying extra AFs on cards that are not worth it to you. 


This is wrong. I started churning 8 years ago. I've had over 60 cards in that time. my credit score was garbage when I started. I had to get a secured card, my credit was so bad. My Credit score hovers around 800 now on all three agencies. Stop spreading this myth. 


Maybe you are flying under the radar with your activity. If you prefer to dispel the myth, you can call customer service and explain what you've done with the cards and ask if the behavior is OK with Amex. Hopefully you'd get a straight answer.


We need to keep it FSR in here. Their response was in regards to not being able to have good credit with those behaviors, not whether the behaviors are deemed acceptable.


Yep. OP hit the SUB and would like to transfer points, which can be done. Amex will allow. The point was expanded to whether Amex will continue to allow this while continuously opening new accounts, which may not be allowed.

Message 16 of 34
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Amex gold question..


@Shadowfactor wrote:
Completely agree with KIB. Amex will forgive you if you close a card after a year or have one card that doesn’t get much spend provided you’re overall level of spend is acceptable to them.

My fiancée is locked out of welcome bonuses and I’ve spent 75K on her second ever Amex card and it’s not even a year old. Her first card was the delta gold where she hit the sub and it was almost nonexistent spend until the 12.5 month mark when she closed it.
No matter how much spend I throw at it, they aren’t budging on any welcome offers. I even tried BCE for the low non MR offers.

I’ve seen this theme a lot in the Facebook groups I moderate for, lots of people have this bright idea that they will game Amex and it comes back to bite them in the arse.

The funny thing is that Amex doesn’t really seem to care all that much about MS either. Sure if you’re stupid you’re screwed but they have been extremely tolerant IMO. They don’t like people breaking the rules though and welcome offers/SUB’s/referrals are a big sore spot.

How much would this "overall acceptable" spending be?

Message 17 of 34
Remedios
Credit Mentor

Re: Amex gold question..

I dont think it's quantified with dollar amount.
More likely, it's what happens with the card once SUB is awarded.
If the card is never used again, then closed, the intent there is pretty clear.
Putting any dollar amount on it on a regular basis, and keeping it for a second year if PC to no AF card is available should do the trick.

Or conversely, pony up like a big girl/boy and just pay it.

I dont care how anyone uses their cards, which bear they want to poke but if one elects to go that route, then a year later starts "Why wont Amex give me SUB" thread, that's a whole another story.

People can play it smart or they can attempt brute force with SUBs and closings, as long as they keep in mind that while there are plenty of lenders, most do not provide rewards that Amex does.
They also aren't exactly the forgiving kind, so people can do whatever they want, but minus complaints about the repercussions later.
Message 18 of 34
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Amex gold question..

Thats not the question I asked. I already know holding on to it for another year, and/or downgrade is a safe option. I was just intrigued by the new info.

 

per @shadowfactor, amex can be forgiving IF one spends acceptable amount on OTHER amex cards in possession even if the to-be-closed card has very light spending on it.

 

I simply wanted to know what is "acceptable spending on OTHER amex cards", that will satisfy amex.

Message 19 of 34
Remedios
Credit Mentor

Re: Amex gold question..


@Anonymous wrote:

Thats not the question I asked. I already know holding on to it for another year, and/or downgrade is a safe option. I was just intrigued by the new info.

 

per @shadowfactor, amex can be forgiving IF one spends acceptable amount on OTHER amex cards in possession even if the to-be-closed card has very light spending on it.

 

I simply wanted to know what is "acceptable spending on OTHER amex cards", that will satisfy amex.


 

 

While I dont speak for @Shadowfactor , I doubt he's going to be able to put a numerical value on "acceptable spend", because there isn't one. 

It's about card remaining in use past the minimum sub requirement. Situation he described with his fiancee is a perfect example. Cannot get another SUB because card was closed after getting it. 

They do not find spending over $70K on other Amex cards acceptable, not because of raw amount, but because they played their hand, and now Amex is playing theirs. 

That's a large spend for most individuals but tiny drop in Amex's bucket. They can afford to be capricious while limiting/mitigating future loses. 

 

 

Also, I'm not convinced they are tolerant of MSing at all. Maybe if mixed with organic spend one can get away with it longer, but they seem to do mass shutdowns in batches. 

It just didn't happen to be his turn yet. 

 

 

Message 20 of 34
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