Big Picture Questions: PRG + CSP vs. CSR and Points vs. Cash Back

[Anonymous]

In this new year I've been revisiting my credit card rewards strategies.  It all started when I realized that the MileagePlus X app no longer works for the Amex travel credit.  I've never been a fan of how difficult that credit is to use (locked into one airline and it only works for non-airfare purchases--there are reports of gift cards being eligible, but those reports don't seem consistent).  I'm also frustrated with how American Express applies a surcharge to transfers to Delta.  I prefer to fly Delta (although I find myself flying Southwest more often), but SkyMiles aren't worth that much to begin with.  I have travel planned this year that will use up all of my SkyMiles and I'll be able to use my Amex credit on bag fees, so I'm fine for this year.  However, if I don't end up keeping the PRG past this year, it doesn't really make sense for me to be putting much spend on it, so I'm trying to work out my strategy.

I'm currently 7/24 until the end of October (but I won't be below 5/24 until the end of December), so I'm not going to be able to apply for the CSR to get the massive sign up bonus before it ends.  I also have several different chase cards (CSP, CF, CFU, Hyatt, Marriott, & Slate), so I don't expect to be able to bypass the 5/24 rule by getting preapproved at a branch (and I'm nowhere close to becoming a Chase Private Client).  I never thought that the CSR would make sense for me because I don't really spend much money on travel in any given year.  I collect points specifically so I can travel without spending much money.  However, I started thinking about things...  Assume I did spend $300 on travel in a year: this makes my effective annual fee $150 for the CSR.  Between my CSP and PRG, I'm currently paying an effective annual fee of $190.  All of a sudden the CSR with its $450 annual fee starts looking like it makes sense.

I then started thinking about things on a per-point basis.  If I flat out canceled my PRG, my CSP would allow me to buy tickets on Delta at 1.25 cents per point.  This is approximately the value of SkyMiles, at least according to The Points Guy.  The CSR raises the value of UR points to 1.5 cents per point when used on travel through the UR portal.  This appears to be a better value per point, at least when redeeming for flights on Delta.

Things start falling apart for me when I start comparing the CSR to my Citi DC card.  On non-bonus category purchases, I can get 2% cash back on my DC card but only 1.875% (effectively) when spending with my CFU and redeeming with a CSR.  So if I were looking to outright buy Delta flights, it would appear that the Citi DC card provides a better return.  [EDIT: I'm an idiot; the redemption on the CFU is 1.5, not 1.25.  I have no idea how I came up with that number]. The obvious point I can hear you making is that the CSR and the CF offer bonus categories, and the DC doesn't.  For what it's worth, I spend a lot of money at restaurants every year (it was the only category I maxed out on my CF last year), so the elevated rewards on dining through the CSR would actually be a benefit to me.  (Canceling my PRG would also help me consolidate my restaurant spending onto one card--I'd also still get elevated rewards using my BCP on groceries and gas).  The CSR also comes with other benefits, of course.  I don't fly that many times a year, but a priority pass would actually be useful for my travel plans this year (but we're talking maybe 4 one-way trips... maybe 6).  I'd also be able to get Global Entry for free (but my travel partners for this year don't have it and don't plan on getting it or TSA Pre-Check).

So what I'm really here today to ask for is whether I'm right in thinking that the CSR actually offers more value to me than the CSP + PRG?  Is this even true if I don't get any bonus to product change or should I wait to apply at the start of 2018 even though I could use some CSR benefits this year?  Also, with respect to your own strategies, how do you decide whether to go with points, points that can be used like cash, and cash back?

----tl;dr version----

Drop PRG and CSP to get CSR?  Product change without bonus now or apply with bonus in 2018?

How do YOU decide between collecting/redeeming points, points that can be used like cash, and cash back?

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

So what I'm really here today to ask for is whether I'm right in thinking that the CSR actually offers more value to me than the CSP + PRG?  Is this even true if I don't get any bonus to product change or should I wait to apply at the start of 2018 even though I could use some CSR benefits this year?  Also, with respect to your own strategies, how do you decide whether to go with points, points that can be used like cash, and cash back?

----tl;dr version----

Drop PRG and CSP to get CSR?  Product change without bonus now or apply with bonus in 2018?

How do YOU decide between collecting/redeeming points, points that can be used like cash, and cash back?

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Well have you considered waiting to see what the revisions are going to be for the consumer version of the Amex Plat?  Or, how about the Amex Enhanced Biz Plat that has 10 gogo wifi passes worth 160-600, 200 travel credit per cal year for incidentals, but the best part is 50 percent point rebate, pairing that card with the PRG or even better the EDP if your grocery spend is high, is a wonderful option. If you did have a small business until feb 1st, amex blue with 10k bonus points after first purchase, plus 10x points on 2k of dining first 6 months, as well as annual 30% point rebate, would also be great, since it earns 2x points on everything up to 50k in spend, so that becomes and easy 30k points plus 2.6 mr points per dollar spent on anything which beats the 1.5 on the EDP.  0% for 12 months as well.

I would say if you are going to be at <5/24 in 2018 then you should shoot for that because the chase cards offer large signup offers.  And I would still say it would not hurt to try checking in branch until march for the CSR.

You also would earn 5x MR points per dollar spent on delta purchases if you had the amex personal platinum card.  Lots of ways to look at things.  If you are a delta person, then getting the delta gold or platinum card at some point when its at 50-70k would not be a bad idea either.

Also your spending on the CSR would be 3x UR points per dollar spent on travel, and if redeemed any of your UR points through chase they are worth 4.5x for travel.

All comes down to patience, stragey, etc.  Chase seems to always offer a high signup offer on at least one or two cards.  Figure out which airline works the best for you.  Still go for the CSR in branch, if not, pursue some amex options listed above.  Also you can avoid paying tax for longer haul flights by adjusting how you fly, or using amex membership rewards insider fares. These are usually at least 1.2cpp in value, when booking flights/hotels through amex travel.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

So what I'm really here today to ask for is whether I'm right in thinking that the CSR actually offers more value to me than the CSP + PRG?  Is this even true if I don't get any bonus to product change or should I wait to apply at the start of 2018 even though I could use some CSR benefits this year?  Also, with respect to your own strategies, how do you decide whether to go with points, points that can be used like cash, and cash back?

----tl;dr version----

Drop PRG and CSP to get CSR?  Product change without bonus now or apply with bonus in 2018?

How do YOU decide between collecting/redeeming points, points that can be used like cash, and cash back?

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Well have you considered waiting to see what the revisions are going to be for the consumer version of the Amex Plat?  Or, how about the Amex Enhanced Biz Plat that has 10 gogo wifi passes worth 160-600, 200 travel credit per cal year for incidentals, but the best part is 50 percent point rebate, pairing that card with the PRG or even better the EDP if your grocery spend is high, is a wonderful option. If you did have a small business until feb 1st, amex blue with 10k bonus points after first purchase, plus 10x points on 2k of dining first 6 months, as well as annual 30% point rebate, would also be great, since it earns 2x points on everything up to 50k in spend, so that becomes and easy 30k points plus 2.6 mr points per dollar spent on anything which beats the 1.5 on the EDP.  0% for 12 months as well.

I would say if you are going to be at <5/24 in 2018 then you should shoot for that because the chase cards offer large signup offers.  And I would still say it would not hurt to try checking in branch until march for the CSR.

You also would earn 5x MR points per dollar spent on delta purchases if you had the amex personal platinum card.  Lots of ways to look at things.  If you are a delta person, then getting the delta gold or platinum card at some point when its at 50-70k would not be a bad idea either.

Also your spending on the CSR would be 3x UR points per dollar spent on travel, and if redeemed any of your UR points through chase they are worth 4.5x for travel.

All comes down to patience, stragey, etc.  Chase seems to always offer a high signup offer on at least one or two cards.  Figure out which airline works the best for you.  Still go for the CSR in branch, if not, pursue some amex options listed above.  Also you can avoid paying tax for longer haul flights by adjusting how you fly, or using amex membership rewards insider fares. These are usually at least 1.2cpp in value, when booking flights/hotels through amex travel.

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Business cards are a no go for me.  With the line of work I'm in, having a small business would ultimately create more hassle than I could possible offset in benefits.  If I did, though, I'm pretty sure that I'd go for the Amex Business Platinum due to the ability to get 50% of points used back when buying airfare through Amex travel.  That really is a great deal.

The Amex platinum card isn't really on my radar at the moment (Amex does keep offering me 50,000 points to upgrade, though) because I'm not really thrilled with how tough the airline credit is to use, and I rarely use cash to buy airline tickets, so the CSR bonus categories would be more useful to me.  

You're right that I should at least check on whether I'm approved in branch.  That's a small price to pay for $1500+ if I can get it...  If I can't, I guess my question is does it really make sense to wait to apply.  Although, the more I think about it, the more of a personal question that could be.  It all depends on whether the elevated point structure, the availability of the CSR bonus benefits for an extra year, and not having to take a hit to my AAOA with a new app are worth more than a 50,000 point sign up bonus, but that is a difficult question to answer without crunching some numbers I realize.

[NRB525]

OP, if your spend is rather light, as mine also is, then it is best to wait until you can app the CSR for a bonus, even if it is still only 50,000 UR at the end of 2017. If you just PC to the CSR, you do get the travel benefits, but then don't get the valuable points. Even 50,000 UR are worth a lot. 

Regaring Global Entry and TSA Pre Check, when my GF and I travelled recently, on the same itinerary, we both got the TSA Pre Check even though I am the only one with that registration.  Don't know if this always extends, and it almost certainly does not extend when returning to the US through customs, but it is possible domestic flights would go better for you and your posse.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Things start falling apart for me when I start comparing the CSR to my Citi DC card.  On non-bonus category purchases, I can get 2% cash back on my DC card but only 1.875% (effectively) when spending with my CFU and redeeming with a CSR.  

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Where does 1.875% come from?   If you spend $1 with CFU you get 1.5 UR, and this is worth 2.25c when redeemed with CSR.

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Things start falling apart for me when I start comparing the CSR to my Citi DC card.  On non-bonus category purchases, I can get 2% cash back on my DC card but only 1.875% (effectively) when spending with my CFU and redeeming with a CSR.  

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Where does 1.875% come from?   If you spend $1 with CFU you get 1.5 UR, and this is worth 2.25c when redeemed with CSR.

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I got it from multiplying the 1.25 points I get from the CFU by the 1.5 cents I get through redeeming them as travel.  My calculations are that this gets me a redemption value of 1.875 cents per point.  I'm curious about how you arrived at 2.25 cents (although this amount would obviously be preferable).

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

Things start falling apart for me when I start comparing the CSR to my Citi DC card.  On non-bonus category purchases, I can get 2% cash back on my DC card but only 1.875% (effectively) when spending with my CFU and redeeming with a CSR.  

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Where does 1.875% come from?   If you spend $1 with CFU you get 1.5 UR, and this is worth 2.25c when redeemed with CSR.

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I got it from multiplying the 1.25 points I get from the CFU by the 1.5 cents I get through redeeming them as travel.  My calculations are that this gets me a redemption value of 1.875 cents per point.  I'm curious about how you arrived at 2.25 cents (although this amount would obviously be preferable).

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Ah, I see my problem.  I multiplied by 1.25 instead of 1.5.  You're right!

[deltatee]

Your plan makes sense to me.  I have never been able to make the Amex cards and MRs work for me.  However, I have found that Chase provides an incredible value; especially when paired with the Freedom and FU.  I have also found that it is easier to redeem for Delta through Chase than using SkyMiles.

[Anonymous]

You are very heavy on the Marriott/Chase side of the fence which makes me feel like you should be oriented around United Airlines. 

I associate Delta with AmEx MR Pts and SPG as you can create an excellent vacuum of points with the EDP + Plat Biz + Plat Personal combo. It's like a steal. 

If you juggle the numbers and the CSP works for you (espcially if you can get it), you'd probably want to go in that direction. Estimate how many points you think you'd be able to get between now and December and see if it's worth missing out on 50k points. I don't have any Chase cards, but do they offer some kind of incentive to PC? I will they let you get like 10k after 'X' amount of spend? I know some companies do that.

December is practically a year away. Between Resturant and Travel, my AmEx year end statements say I spent about 24k. I'm guessing that would net about 72k Chase UR points so in my case, I would not wait.

Do some calculations!! 

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:
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Well have you considered waiting to see what the revisions are going to be for the consumer version of the Amex Plat?  Or, how ...

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I keep seeing this statement in different places... is this a real thing? (Not to post-hijack)