CSP

[Anonymous]

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@stlsme wrote:

I don't believe in bonus churning. IMO thats why a lot of card perks get nerfed. Kind of like going to a timeshare presentation with no intention of buying just there for the free gift. 

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I don't think that is why cards get nerfed at all!  Most of the examples are unexpected flaws in the rewards program leading to some people racking up huge rewards values.  Citi 5x TYP,  Amex BCP, US Bank Cash Plus, Amex Hilton all got somewhat nerfed, and had small to no (Cash Plus) sign up.

Banks all the time have the option of reducing their sign up bonuses and/or decreasing availability to churners.   So they are very much in control of what is needed.

Time for my equivalent rant:  I don't believe in reward credit cards.  Or indeed credit cards.  The fees paid increase the costs to consumers and so are bad for the general good.  Please close your cards today.

[Kenny]

LOL @longtimelurker. I always enjoy your posts.

[Anonymous]

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@stlsme wrote:

I don't believe in bonus churning. IMO thats why a lot of card perks get nerfed. Kind of like going to a timeshare presentation with no intention of buying just there for the free gift. 

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Have you ever been to a timeshare presentation? Everyone at the presentation is there for the free gift and the timeshare people know that. The timeshare people just want to see the 2% of people who are easy to persuade buy. That's part of their business model. In much the same way, credit card companies know when they have good initial bonuses, that a certain amount of people will "take the bonuses and run". That's also part of their business model. They just hope that the vast majority of people will keep their card (out of loyalty, because they get good customer service, or just plain inertia). If they make a misjudgement and more people bonus churn than expected, they've only got themselves to blame. I don't think card perks get nerfed because of bonus churning. They get nerfed because whoever manages that card account at the bank meets his new customer quota and decides to now focus on margin. It's all about P & L's. Plenty of cards have got nerfed which didn't have great initial bonuses (eg. Kroger 0.5-1.0-1.5 card which never had a good initial bonus).

I myself would never bonus churn- when I apply for a card, I'd rather have good ongoing rewards than a nice lump sum for spending x dollars. It's not worth a hard pull just for a one shot deal. But I don't think those who bonus churn are doing anything wrong. It's not illegal, it's not immoral or unethical. Their card holder agreement says either party can terminate at any time.

[CreditScholar]

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@eagle2013 wrote:

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@red259 wrote:

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@eagle2013 wrote:

The influx of CSP AF threads are puzzling, particularly that the $400 cash back bonus after $2 or $3k spend more than covers a few years worth of annual fees. Honestly, I think some got caught up in the hype of having a "metal" card without truly assessing if the card matches their current needs/spend. It is a really good card, particularly if you travel and take advantage of the 1:1 transfers.

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I don't think the CSP AF threads are puzzling at all. Why keep the card four years and keep paying the AF just because the initial bonus covers it? That cancels out the whole profit to the card holder unless they are putting significant annual spend on the card. Unless it meets your specific needs there is no reason to keep paying an AF on a card and its silly to do so. Also keep in mind that some people have chase premium biz cards that offer the same features as the csp so there is no reason to pay two annual fees and the biz cards are better imo. The csp is great for the benefits and the initial bonus, but the value of the card begins to wane after the first year (especially after recent devaluations) unless your really dedicated to generating URs. The bonus categories of the CSP are not the best. 

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Why would anyone get a card that does not meet their inital spending needs? That is a part of responsible credit use. I am pretty sure everyone who apped for the CSP, particularly if they are a member here, knows what the AF will be and that it will take decent - not great spend to make the card worth the AF. If it is a matter of bonus churning, while I don't agree, than that is a understandable motive. It is also equally understandable if the CSP isn't living up to expectations for whatever reason. Far be it for me to judge, but I think there needs to be a bit more discretion in apping for CCs, particularly those with high AFs.

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1. Signup bonuses

2. Vanity (OMG it's a metal card!!!) and ego-boosting (OMG I'm soooooo baller!!!) often knows no bounds

3. A lot of people are on these forums because they've been irresponsible with credit in the past

[stlsme]

Getting back on track the CSP is worth if you spend....... It looks like the CSP when parlayed with the Freedom > Arrival. I am just trying to figure out the best way to maximize reward points for travel. I travel internationally usually once per year with my wife. Mexico or Islands.... Will be soon running an additional 90k per year thru card currently about 30k per. Have some time not appoint until julyish.

[Anonymous]

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@stlsme wrote:
Getting back on track the CSP is worth if you spend....... It looks like the CSP when parlayed with the Freedom > Arrival. I am just trying to figure out the best way to maximize reward points for travel. I travel internationally usually once per year with my wife. Mexico or Islands.... Will be soon running an additional 90k per year thru card currently about 30k per. Have some time not appoint until julyish.

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I think that there is general agreement that the most valuable use of UR is in transfers to partners, in particular "aspirational" rewards (premium cabin international, highest category hotels in peak season for example).  

So for any individual: is this something you want to do, and do the Chase partners work for you?  If no, then the arrival is probably better!  Otherwise, if you have awards in mind, you can fairly easily work out the value of each point transferred, and then you see how much of your spending is in the greater than 1% category.   So you might end up with say, every $1000 you spend would earn you 1,500 UR, which for your reward you value at X cents each.  The same spending on Arrival would earn you 2000 points (or 2,200) valued at 1c each.  Then just do the math...

The Freedom/CSP combo is something I think is slightly overstressed here.  The Freedom isn't that big of a points earner, if you are able to maximize all categories that is 30K UR, or 33K with a Chase account.  That's certainly not nothing, but that relies on you being able to maximize each quarter.    But if you get the CSP, you may as well also get the Freedom as it has no AF.

[red259]

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@stlsme wrote:
Getting back on track the CSP is worth if you spend....... It looks like the CSP when parlayed with the Freedom > Arrival. I am just trying to figure out the best way to maximize reward points for travel. I travel internationally usually once per year with my wife. Mexico or Islands.... Will be soon running an additional 90k per year thru card currently about 30k per. Have some time not appoint until julyish.

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CSP can be but only if you can use their travel partners and transfer your points over, especially if your maxing out the freedom categories. For straight cash back on travel expenses the Arrival is better. I don't think the amount of spend really matters after a certain point. It comes down to how you redeem for your travel. 

[red259]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@stlsme wrote:
Getting back on track the CSP is worth if you spend....... It looks like the CSP when parlayed with the Freedom > Arrival. I am just trying to figure out the best way to maximize reward points for travel. I travel internationally usually once per year with my wife. Mexico or Islands.... Will be soon running an additional 90k per year thru card currently about 30k per. Have some time not appoint until julyish.

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I think that there is general agreement that the most valuable use of UR is in transfers to partners, in particular "aspirational" rewards (premium cabin international, highest category hotels in peak season for example).  

So for any individual: is this something you want to do, and do the Chase partners work for you?  If no, then the arrival is probably better!  Otherwise, if you have awards in mind, you can fairly easily work out the value of each point transferred, and then you see how much of your spending is in the greater than 1% category.   So you might end up with say, every $1000 you spend would earn you 1,500 UR, which for your reward you value at X cents each.  The same spending on Arrival would earn you 2000 points (or 2,200) valued at 1c each.  Then just do the math...

The Freedom/CSP combo is something I think is slightly overstressed here.  The Freedom isn't that big of a points earner, if you are able to maximize all categories that is 30K UR, or 33K with a Chase account.  That's certainly not nothing, but that relies on you being able to maximize each quarter.    But if you get the CSP, you may as well also get the Freedom as it has no AF.

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+1 you responded faster than I did and summed it up much better. I would add to my prior comments something that I think is left out of many discussions on ideal cards, especially those planning for longer term goals. That is that travel partners of Chase can have devaluations or the exchange rate of UR to loyalty points in a given program can be changed. What this means is that while the CSP may be great today a year from now the value of UR points could be decreased. I think this is less likely to happen with a cash back travel card like the arrival, although if prices on tickets rose rapidly then the cost of redemption with the arrival would also rise. 

[clocktick]

This thread is exactly what I needed to read.  I have the CSP and am considering dropping down to the regular one but just don't know yet! 

[DigitalArk]

I have CSP/Freedom combo and arrival. To me, arrival works better.