CSR updates coming 10/5?

[notmyrealname23]

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@iced wrote:

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@wasCB14 wrote:

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I'm only moderately interested in getting the Amex Gold once my next "SUB lifetime" begins. I probably wouldn't use the dining credit naturally most months, and my existing cards cover me pretty well as far as airfare extras.

But CFU is nothing amazing IMO as off-category cards go. I'd sooner use my BBP or 2.625% PR.

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The point I was going for was that the comparison tends to fall down to 3x dining/3x travel CSR@$550 vs. 5x airfare/4x dining Platinum+Gold@$800. I'm merely pointing out I'd rather have the 3x dining/travel and 1.5x others for $550 than pay an extra $250 for 2x more airfare and 1x more dining, though I also get that people whose travel patterns heavily favor MR partners and/or airfare spending will close that gap easier.

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This is basically why I'm AMEX Gold/Green as long term holds (unless I ditch AMEX MR for Chase UR... which, maybe come 2022 when I'm not LOL/24) and Platinum is probably a churn card for SUBs/upgrade bait (and maybe not even that, I'm really indifferent to it for long term value unless I spend a LOT more money on airfare).

I do enough rental cars, carshares, rideshares, parking, hotel stays that are not tied to hotel status or cobrand cards that 3x on those vs. 5x on flights/AMEX portal is "duh, I get the card that gets me more points and costs much less". I also don't value most lounge access domestically, but CLEAR is nice at making me get through airports I use very fast.

[addicted_to_credit]

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@Remedios wrote:

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@Aim_High wrote:

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@Remedios wrote:

Also, I think you set a new record for charts in a single post. 

UFC peeps might wanna up their game. 

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Isn't there some sort of special My Fico banner for that?

I want a medal or a certificate! 

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Yes, there is. Sorry about the handwriting, occupational hazard, I suppose 

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This is hilarious!

[kdm31091]

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@Loquat wrote:

If the CSR is to play in the same sandbox as the Amex Platinum then Chase is going to have to do better than DoorDash and Lyft especially since they increased the annual fee to $550.

Folks can justify the Amex Platinum even without big multiplier by way of lounge access, customer service, a much better array of card offerings, willingness to retain a customer by way of incentives to stay, Amex Offers, etc.

Chase brings very little to the table outside the card itself. Travel protection meant something until Amex started to offer it. There's little to no outsized value to be had with the Sapphire product. The multipliers are lagging even behind the likes of Citi and even the CapOne Venture offers 5x when booking through their portal.

In my opinion, since there's no outsized value to be had unless transferring to partners and even their selection of transfer partners aren't all that exciting.   There's an argument that could be made that one would do better with the Wells Fargo Propel over the CSP and possibly the CSR.  The Propel has no AF, cell phone protection, access to Amex Offers, and the Earn More Mall usually has 400+ offers on any given day.

The CSP/CSR is stale and if Chase thinks that customers are going to continue to hold the CSR just for the 50% uplift via their travel portal (which is usually more expensive than booking direct due to the inflated cost) they may be in for a rude awakening.  Shy of any sort of substantial change, my CSR is gone; it's not worth $550 to me in its current form. 

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This exactly. The portal boost is meaningless if you can get a lower price elsewhere.

I think given the competition,  many dining/travel cards out there with lower/no fee - paying $550 for the CSR is probably a hard sell for a lot of people. Like you say, at least Amex has (in general) better customer service, lounge access, retention offers, etc. 

[wasCB14]

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@notmyrealname23 wrote:

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@iced wrote:

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@wasCB14 wrote:

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I'm only moderately interested in getting the Amex Gold once my next "SUB lifetime" begins. I probably wouldn't use the dining credit naturally most months, and my existing cards cover me pretty well as far as airfare extras.

But CFU is nothing amazing IMO as off-category cards go. I'd sooner use my BBP or 2.625% PR.

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The point I was going for was that the comparison tends to fall down to 3x dining/3x travel CSR@$550 vs. 5x airfare/4x dining Platinum+Gold@$800. I'm merely pointing out I'd rather have the 3x dining/travel and 1.5x others for $550 than pay an extra $250 for 2x more airfare and 1x more dining, though I also get that people whose travel patterns heavily favor MR partners and/or airfare spending will close that gap easier.

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This is basically why I'm AMEX Gold/Green as long term holds (unless I ditch AMEX MR for Chase UR... which, maybe come 2022 when I'm not LOL/24) and Platinum is probably a churn card for SUBs/upgrade bait (and maybe not even that, I'm really indifferent to it for long term value unless I spend a LOT more money on airfare).

I do enough rental cars, carshares, rideshares, parking, hotel stays that are not tied to hotel status or cobrand cards that 3x on those vs. 5x on flights/AMEX portal is "duh, I get the card that gets me more points and costs much less". I also don't value most lounge access domestically, but CLEAR is nice at making me get through airports I use very fast.

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...whereas for me...

I don't rent cars that often, and get cheap primary coverage in CA with Amex, paying only as needed.

I often stay at a relative's home, or the relative chooses and books lodging.

I have various points and certificates with major hotel chains.

BofA PR gives me 3.5% on other travel (and 2.625% if I get the category wrong).

So all that really eats into any marginal value of CSR or Green.

[Loquat]

@Aim_High I hear you and can appreciate your perspective.  However I still don't think $550 justifies the benefits at least in my situation.  Most of the categories you mentioned can be had at 3x on a no annual fee card like the Propel that I mentioned.  I don't know if you've ever had to deal with Chase's team when filing a claim but I have.  I liken dealing with them to calling the customer service line at Frontier; it's terribly unplesant. 

I don't place a lot of value with Chase's travel protection because I've had to use it before and they spend more time (and waste yours) trying to do every little thing they can to get out of paying you for anything.  I had one encounter with them that they eventually paid after almost 3 months of trying to get out of it and that was enough.  I use Allianz now as they're much easier to deal with and will pay out very fast when you submit a valid claim. 

Sure cards like the Propel doesn't have any transfer partners but Chase lacks the Earn More Mall which is substantially better than any of the weak Chase offers which can be obtained on just about any debit card.  

I give a hat tip to CDW but I'd venture a guess that most folks either use their own insurance or if they lack insurance and my understanding of how credit card insurance works, then the secondary then becomes primary so they're covered.

So I guess I'll ask you this if you don't mind sharing your view, how does one justify the CSP/CSR vs the Propel or the Citi Premier?  Shy of CDW, the Preimer and the Propel meets or exceeds the CSP/CSR on almost every level.  They both offer 3x on car rentals, parking, tolls, (ending 4/21 on Premier) air fare, hotels, dining, fuel, (grocery on the Premier), cell phone protection.

The Propel takes it further by offering lost luggage, travel accident insurance, roadside assistance, purchase protection, return protection,  and extended warranty....and that's all on a no AF card.   Again I'll mention that the Propel has access to Amex Offers and the Earn More Mall.  It's not my intent to be overly harsh about the CSR but one can't ignore that its luster is lost.  It's lurking in the shadow of its own no AF variants and the likes of other no AF cards by various lenders.  

I know to each their own but I just don't see the value.  I'm going to cancel my CSR if it stays the way it is and in the spirit of transparency, I don't have the Amex Platinum.  

[Citylights18]

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@iced wrote:

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@wasCB14 wrote:

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I'm only moderately interested in getting the Amex Gold once my next "SUB lifetime" begins. I probably wouldn't use the dining credit naturally most months, and my existing cards cover me pretty well as far as airfare extras.

But CFU is nothing amazing IMO as off-category cards go. I'd sooner use my BBP or 2.625% PR.

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The point I was going for was that the comparison tends to fall down to 3x dining/3x travel CSR@$550 vs. 5x airfare/4x dining Platinum+Gold@$800. I'm merely pointing out I'd rather have the 3x dining/travel and 1.5x others for $550 than pay an extra $250 for 2x more airfare and 1x more dining, though I also get that people whose travel patterns heavily favor MR partners and/or airfare spending will close that gap easier.

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If you are comparing across cards that is a different story.

What about a 3x dining/2x travel CFU+CSP for only $95 AF? You can still move the points to travel partners if you like.

[K-in-Boston]

I feel like I should just make this a macro at this point, but the discussion about inflated pricing on travel portals is moot in most cases - at least when it comes to airfare and hotels.  Outside of some of the Amex discounts, travel packages, mistake fares, and outliers like codeshares and creative routing, airline pricing is the same across all OTAs and the same as booking direct.  Any discrepancy in pricing is usually related to some sites showing tax-inclusive pricing and others showing pre-tax pricing.  

While certainly some of the OTAs will have sales for some hotel properties, the chains will usually be the same across OTAs and have similar pricing to booking direct (notwithstanding member-only and elite-only pricing), again with most price discrepancies being whether tax is shown or not in a quoted nightly rate.  Of course elite members will always want to book directly with the hotel (thankfully not a concern with airfare outside of the rare consolidator fare which is sometimes included in a "vacation package").

Chase uses Expedia and the pricing is the same as Expedia.  I have not seen any evidence of any of the major credit card travel portals having an inflated price over booking direct.  And in some cases, such as Amex Insider Fares, Amex International program, or some Delta city pairs when booking through the Macy's Amex portal, these fares can actually be substantially lower.

[notmyrealname23]

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@wasCB14 wrote:

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...whereas for me...

I don't rent cars that often, and get cheap primary coverage in CA with Amex, paying only as needed.

I often stay at a relative's home, or the relative chooses and books lodging.

I have various points and certificates with major hotel chains.

BofA PR gives me 3.5% on other travel (and 2.625% if I get the category wrong).

So all that really eats into any marginal value of CSR or Green.

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Sure. That being said, I can see a day down the road where I decide I'd just toss all the lovely-sounding cool looking metal cards and "OMG, it's an AMEX/I get BENEFITS" for no-AF options- WF Propel, 2% cashback, no-AF cobrand options (some of which I already have and use). Horses for courses.

I would say that AMEX Green's a legitimate option if you're not hung up on lounges, hotel status and benefits, and you have an earning profile that would work well with CSR/CSP.

[iced]

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@Citylights18 wrote:

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If you are comparing across cards that is a different story.

What about a 3x dining/2x travel CFU+CSP for only $95 AF? You can still move the points to travel partners if you like.

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Not for me, but maybe someone else. I tend to burn the travel credit by Jan 1 of each year (it activates on my Dec 15th statement and is usually gone in two weeks) so it then becomes a 3x dining/2x travel for $250 AF. Add to that PP (which, adding to previous discussion, both Platinum and CSR have) which I'll value very conservatively at $50, and I'm paying an extra $105 a year for that extra 1x travel. As travel tends to be one of my largest spends each year, that extra 1x typically translates into an extra 30k UR points -- well worth the extra $105.

The DoorDash credits were icing on the cake.

[Loquat]

In my experience Amex's portal is always a few dollars higher and my wife went around with USB about their prices being inflated and they eventually agreed to disagree. USBank actually saw discrepancy and still wouldn't acknowledge it. It ended with them saying that there's nothing they can do.

And while it may only be a few dollars here or there, that makes a difference when calculating point values...especially since most in this hobby based everything off cpp.

Amex Travel does offer decent value on their Insider rate or whatever they call it but I usually only see them offer on AA flights. And they too are usually $3-10 higher than booking direct. Is it a big deal...to some yes, other maybe not but when making an argument of one over the other I think all things are to be considered.