Capital One PC EO?

[trusty]

So, turns out that the regular Capital One customer service (and supervisors) cannot refund the annual fee, even if they product change to a no annual fee product? Apparently, they don't provide their Supervisors any limits to credit customers for loyalty, or anything.

Which doesn't make much sense, because the annual fee was supposedly waived for the first year. So, essentially, their annual fee is for 1 day of service, if you call the day after the annual fee is charged, to change products; because, even if the fee based product is passed on, for the entire rest of the year... the customer would still be expected to fork over an annual fee for merely 1 day of service. That's patently ridiculous.

It would be nice if there were a sticky around here with guidelines like these; because, other banks want you to wait until the fee posts to call. It's good to know either way; but, I guess it's common sense to try to get out in front of all of this stuff. Either way, they get you into a catch 22, because you're not really supposed to even change card products within the first year. At least, that's supposed to be the regulation, right?

Anyway, the question I have is: Should I just PC now... and then contact the Executive Office for the annual fee credit? Or, should I just contact the EO first, and ask for a loyalty waiver, since their system doesn't seem to care whether the product is tied to a fee? This way, I would just call next year if I wanted to product change - before the fee hits. If not, I assume that the EO can help with the PC and the fee waiver, if that's what they want to do.

Seems like an awful bind to put their front-line reps in though... with no ability to apply common sense to their products and credits. Why would anyone willingly change to a no annual fee product -- without getting their fee removed, or at the minimum, prorated, for non-use? That seems like something that any smart system would be able to do... seeing as that pretty much every other credit card company can do it, and does it all day long.

It's nothing more than a trivial (and very cynical) game to charge an annual fee for merely 1 day of usage. How could people possibly be expected to be satisfied with such a dereliction of service?

[K-in-Boston]

The regulation for changing cards only applies to changing to a card with a higher annual fee in the first year.  There are no regulations preventing a consumer from moving to a card with a lower (or no) annual fee.  I would check the following link for product changes rather than dealing with their CSRs:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Capital-One-check-for-upgrade-link/m-p/4934733

As for the usefulness of the EO, from what I've seen the past few years they've not really been very helpful for most people.

[kdm31091]

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@trusty wrote:

So, turns out that the regular Capital One customer service (and supervisors) cannot refund the annual fee, even if they product change to a no annual fee product? Apparently, they don't provide their Supervisors any limits to credit customers for loyalty, or anything.

Which doesn't make much sense, because the annual fee was supposedly waived for the first year. So, essentially, their annual fee is for 1 day of service, if you call the day after the annual fee is charged, to change products; because, even if the fee based product is passed on, for the entire rest of the year... the customer would still be expected to fork over an annual fee for merely 1 day of service. That's patently ridiculous.

It would be nice if there were a sticky around here with guidelines like these; because, other banks want you to wait until the fee posts to call. It's good to know either way; but, I guess it's common sense to try to get out in front of all of this stuff. Either way, they get you into a catch 22, because you're not really supposed to even change card products within the first year. At least, that's supposed to be the regulation, right?

Anyway, the question I have is: Should I just PC now... and then contact the Executive Office for the annual fee credit? Or, should I just contact the EO first, and ask for a loyalty waiver, since their system doesn't seem to care whether the product is tied to a fee? This way, I would just call next year if I wanted to product change - before the fee hits. If not, I assume that the EO can help with the PC and the fee waiver, if that's what they want to do.

Seems like an awful bind to put their front-line reps in though... with no ability to apply common sense to their products and credits. Why would anyone willingly change to a no annual fee product -- without getting their fee removed, or at the minimum, prorated, for non-use? That seems like something that any smart system would be able to do... seeing as that pretty much every other credit card company can do it, and does it all day long.

It's nothing more than a trivial (and very cynical) game to charge an annual fee for merely 1 day of usage. How could people possibly be expected to be satisfied with such a dereliction of service?

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Capital One just doesn't work like most banks. The EO is not empowered (or not allowed) to really do anything because a few years back everyone was calling them for every minor request, so Capital One basically cut the cord on that.  In short, it's a waste of your time trying to get help from the EO on something like this.

The regulation on product changes (the CARD act) covers annual fee increases in the first year of card membership. An issuer cannot, even at your request, move you to a product with a higher annual fee within the first year. Anything outside of that (lower AF, no AF) is totally up to individual issuer policy, not regulated by law. Nevertheless, there's no guarantee about a PC at any time. You applied for a certain product and the bank has no obligation to let you switch it to something else.

I would further say that Capital One isn't into loyalty waivers, retentions, etc. They just don't work that way. Instead of getting upset about it and trying to pull teeth with them, I suggest just moving onto other products and lenders that are more flexible as your profile allows it. Most if not all Capital One products have comparable versions from other banks.

TL;DR don't expect much from Capital One and/or the EO on this. Just move on.

[UncleB]

The advice already offered is spot-on; the EO mostly likely won't be able/willing to assist you.

That said, you never mentioned what card you have, what you want to PC to, and if you had already done it or were just considering it.

My own experience a few years back with closing a card after the AF had hit was that the CSR told me I had waited too long (it had been just over two weeks), although it ended up being credited by the system anyway.  A PC/downgrade might (?) work similarly.

Also, they are always unable to discuss crediting an AF if it hasn't posted yet, but once it posts they have more options.  I have been able to get full fees credited at times, and a few times just a half-credit but again only after the fee has posted.

[trusty]

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@UncleB wrote:

The advice already offered is spot-on; the EO mostly likely won't be able/willing to assist you.

That said, you never mentioned what card you have, what you want to PC to, and if you had already done it or were just considering it.

My own experience a few years back with closing a card after the AF had hit was that the CSR told me I had waited too long (it had been just over two weeks), although it ended up being credited by the system anyway.  A PC/downgrade might (?) work similarly.

Also, they are always unable to discuss crediting an AF if it hasn't posted yet, but once it posts they have more options.  I have been able to get full fees credited at times, and a few times just a half-credit but again only after the fee has posted.

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Thanks for all of the replies. Apparently, I had my email notifications turned off; so I just got a chance to update the topic.

This is regarding Venture card, for 1 year. The front-line reps and supervisor offered PC to basic Venture or Quicksilver. However, the caveat was that - even though the card could be changed to a no annual fee product, they stated that they could not refund the annual fee that had just been charged; which, since the annual fee was, "waived for the first year," is tantamount to a 1-day annual fee.

So, that's why I was a bit perturbed with all of the conflicting advice, regarding product changes. Oftentimes, the best thing to do is be patient and let the situation play out. Not the case here: the key would have been to call the day prior to the fee posting, and proceeding with the product change. Whereas, with other banks, you have to wait until the fee posts. So, it's all just an annoying game to see how many customers will put up with the fee without balking; because most customers probably just feel trapped and accept the utter nonsense of things like 1-day annual fees.

That's why there should be a sticky with the instructions for each card product. But, I know that this is wishful thinking, because every bank and product and situation is not the same. Still, it doesn't make it any less annoying, jumping through hoops for basic procedural things, where one would think common sense would have some application.

[trusty]

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@K-in-Boston wrote:

The regulation for changing cards only applies to changing to a card with a higher annual fee in the first year.  There are no regulations preventing a consumer from moving to a card with a lower (or no) annual fee.  I would check the following link for product changes rather than dealing with their CSRs:

https://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Credit-Cards/Capital-One-check-for-upgrade-link/m-p/4934733

As for the usefulness of the EO, from what I've seen the past few years they've not really been very helpful for most people.

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Thanks for that link. (still works) - This is much better than talking to clueless front-line reps, considering that they cannot seem to do any different than what the computer says. Why even have a person on the other end? They can just fully automate - with Alexa - if there's not going to be any actual customized care involved.

[rbentley]

[Mod note: quoted text from deleted post removed - KiB]

Wow.  Why even ask if there was only one answer you wanted to hear?  No one told you to "give up without trying".  You were told that our collective history is that the EO is "not really helpful for most people."  You certainly have nothing to lose by writing them, but why ask for experience if you had already decided to go ahead?

Good luck.  Everyone here truly does wish you well.  Please don't be a spoiled sport and just disapear.  Please come back and share your results.

[UncleB]

I'm sorry if you felt the advice provided here was pessimistic; speaking for myself I can say that certainly wasn't the intention.

We were sharing our own experiences and the experiences we've read that others have had, which in this case have been generally consistent.  As for the EO you might have different results - you're more than welcome to try - but historically they haven't been able to do much, and we were collectively trying to help you set your expectations appropriately.

Now that you've done the PC hopefully your AF will be credited back automatically and this will be a moot point.  If not, I would give the front-line CSRs another chance, since as we all know some are better than others.  If that doesn't work, you can always go to the EO to see if they will credit the fee... the worse that can happen is they say 'no'.

Let us know how it turns out!

[trusty]

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@UncleB wrote:

I'm sorry if you felt the advice provided here was pessimistic; speaking for myself I can say that certainly wasn't the intention.

We were sharing our own experiences and the experiences we've read that others have had, which in this case have been generally consistent.  As for the EO you might have different results - you're more than welcome to try - but historically they haven't been able to do much, and we were collectively trying to help you set your expectations appropriately.

Now that you've done the PC hopefully your AF will be credited back automatically and this will be a moot point.  If not, I would give the front-line CSRs another chance, since as we all know some are better than others.  If that doesn't work, you can always go to the EO to see if they will credit the fee... the worse that can happen is they say 'no'.

Let us know how it turns out!

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Your advice was spot on, because you've related what I've experienced... where waiting until the fee posts is usually apropos. So, you understand where I'm coming from, and tailor your advice to the situation.

Nevertheless, it really hits home that everyone's situation is different. Which is why some other advice, to, "just move on," is never good advice; because it never hurts to try. When other users say to just "just move on," which is essentially advising to give up... they really shouldn't even be replying - seeing as they're so disinterested in the topic. That's the, "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all," rule.

Conversely, I appreciate your advice, because it has to do with personal experience and actual strategies and steps and parameters. So, kudos to you. Thanks.

[trusty]

Update: The EO waived the fee. Yay.

Data Points: I still had an EO pin from a previous system glitch points issue; so, I just called the number, entered the previous pin, and waited for the next available representative in the EO dept. The first person who answered was very down to earth, talked about the holidays, and stated that waiving the fee, "was the right thing to do, since my business was worth more than a mere annual fee; and because it didn't make sense to charge a fee for 2019, since I had changed to a no annual fee product."

Seems like a rarity to get someone that is willing to just apply common sense to a situation. But, interestingly, they confirmed that the front-line reps do not have the ability to waive the fee.

It would probably be better if their system were just equipped to automatically pro-rate the annual fee, anytime someone completes a product change. But, I'm sure they probably figured they make more money than foes - off of people that just give up and accept the 1-day annual fee blues. lol

Thanks for the replies, and hope this helps someone else. The key is to call the day before your 12th statement posts to product change. Or, use the PC link provided: https://verified.capitalone.com/sic-ui/#/esignin?Product=Card&Action=ProductUpgrade

(kudos to K-in-Boston for linking) Then you can avoid the fee entirely... assuming you have the option to change to a different card product.