Citizens Bank CC application - "Unable to verify identity" despite all CRs unfrozen

[smcj]

So this is a wild one.

(sidebar:  if you have ever read that Citizens customer service is junk, this has more detail for you.)

I recently closed on a HELOC with Citizens Bank, and in the middle of the closing paperwork was some marketing (of course) saying that I was prequalified for a Citizens Bank CC.  Interestingly though, the marketing had INTERNAL ONLY on top of the how-to, and the how-to instructions were clearly intended to tell someone inside Citizens how to move forward if I said yes, complete with instructions on how to navigate specific menus in specific systems to see if I was preapproved vs. simply "pre-qualified."  (other Citizens Bank CC discussions I find in here suggest that "preapproved" has specific meaning at Citizens in this context, so that tracks).

Anyway, no info on said material for how me as the prospect to get this done.  No phone number.  No email.  No pointer to website.  Person giving me the closing paperwork says that those menus are in the mobile app (they're not) and in the online banking website (they're not).

So after confirming that they're not, I call the 800 number at the top of the closing package.  That person is confused.  They send me to someone else who is confused but differently confused.  So basically I get bounced through four (4) people in four (4) different areas, before landing at, wait for it, the spot for people who phone in from the general public and want to apply for a CC by phone.

The one bright spot here is that though I had clearly left HELOC-related-processingville, the person I got was knowledgable enough about soft vs. hard pulls to explain that their process will do a soft inquiry, and the result will be either that there will be an offer made that includes my SL and my APR, or there will be a "need to do further processing" response, which may or may not get to the same place (or may end in a decline), and if I do end up in "need to do further processing" I'll get an email with info and blah blah blah.  No hard inquiry at all until/unless I accept the offer, if I actually get an offer.  Nice bit of system handling there, so sure, why not.  I end up, during the phone convo, as "need to do further processing."  And then I get an email advising of decline, but with a link to sign into a portal where I can review an Adverse Action letter (which will presumably tell me why I was declined).

This is where it gets funky.

Here's what the Adverse Action letter says.

We’re sorry we are unable to approve your recent application ID #: [redacted]

Dear [redacted]

We are writing with regard to your recent application for the credit card account referenced above. Unfortunately, we are unable to open an account for you at this time for the following reason(s):

• Unable to verify identity

Although we are unable to grant this particular request, we hope that you will consider us for future financial needs.

If you have any questions or additional information for us to consider, please write us at Citizens Credit Card, Credit Department, P.O. BOX 7092, Bridgeport, CT 06601-7092, or call our Customer Service Department at 1-800-930-8916, Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. to 9 p.m. ET and Saturday and Sunday, 9 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. ET.

Sincerely,

Citizens Credit Card Services

Now, I've been through this before, back when everyone started using Experian for ID verification a decade or whatever ago but CSRs (blame their employers) had no idea that that wasn't the same thing as pulling the CR for credit evaluation, and didn't know that a frozen EX CR would blow up the ID verify.  I figured that's what was up this time.  The nifty portal that lets me see my AA letter also lets me submit another application, and since the CSR on the phone advised me point-blank that applying via the Citizens website worked the same way as over the phone, I figure why not, let me check some things and do Round 2.

Short version:  I make sure all 3 CBs (EQ, TU, EX) are unfrozen and hit the go button -- same result.  I scratch my head.  I make sure ChexSystems (no idea why that would be involved in a CC app, but I had it frozen too) is unfrozen -- and try again -- same result.  I notice a minor difference in presentation of my address on Chex vs the 3 CBs, correct it on Chex, and try again -- same result.

And -- importantly -- none of the letters cite any reference to any specific CB at all, and none of my CRs at those CBs show so much as a soft inquiry.  I don't think it's getting that far.

Calling up the number on the letter is no help.  It puts me back in the same department that I spoke to at length when we did the app over the phone, they have no idea what this "unable to verify identity" means, their answer is to try it again on the website or try it again over the phone, and they say there are no other paths to follow (no way to verify identity through any manual process with a human being at all, to be clear).

I know the issue isn't my web browser or computer, because the first AA letter came from the CSR's submission inside Citizens Bank, and the subsequent AA letters are identical (other than having a different application ID each time, because each app is unique -- it's not resubmitting the same one over and over again).

So again, I've navigated this kind of thing before, when a freeze on EX would knock out out of the ID verify routines of everyone.  I have never heard of this kind of thing happening with a CC application and the big 3 CBs unfrozen.  And it's not like Citizens doesn't know who I am or can't identify me in general, the start of this story was the tail end of closing on a HELOC and opening a checking account with them (both done successfully).  The issue isn't that I have a thin file, missing data in one CB or another, or other generic CB weird either.  Left all that stuff behind a long, long time ago.  My handling of my CRs, their accuracy, and their integrity is, for lack of a better term, "seasoned."

Googling around and searching this forum and Reddit in particular, I have found a handful of folks -- maybe three? -- with the same problem in the specific context of a Citizens Bank CC, but no answers.

Anybody ever run into this?  Any idea what CRA or other "thing" this ID verification is choking on?

Any informed intel is appreciated.  I've run out of things to unfreeze!

[zerofire]

Who else did you freeze? LexusNexus?

I had one case with Comenity where I had a minor credit reporter frozen(Sagestream?) while all three main ones were unfrozen. In that case they denied me for having "Unable to verify identity". Then when I called in for a continuation after unfreeze the rep on the phone butchered my existing app and put in a new application. That then said that an existing app is in the system and I had to wait 60-90 days before applying again. Fun times.

Put me off Comenity for some time because the unlock is hard to do. 

[smcj]

I had completely forgotten about the existence of SageStream.  Can't recall whether I locked that one up but I will look into it.  I don't believe I have LexisNexis locked, but I will check out that one as well.

Good feedback -- thank you very much -- and I appreciate the intel on Comenity proper as well.

Edit:  It looks like SageStream got gobbled by LexisNexis, so maybe that's where my answer lies -- will definitely report back.

[zerofire]

Sagestream is easy to forget. I know Comenity and US Bank look in it. Citizens Bank might also. US Bank however no longer considers it mandatory and can work around a frozen Sagestream automatically. The others however consider Sagestream as gospel if they use it.

Also Sagestream is a subsidiary of LexusNexus so blocking one has a habit of messing with the others. LexusNexus is where banks like to get their verification questions. The minor details can get messy fast so if something trips you up do not be alarmed.

[smcj]

Dug out a years-old SageStream disclosure that in fact has LexisNexis and the acquisition of SageSteam all over it --  and on it is a security freeze initiated at about the same time.

@zerofire  *thank you* so very much.

Have lost track of the PIN, of course (legislation by some party named "Murphy")  so taking care of that -- will take a bit for the USPS to churn, so will come back to this thread and advise of outcome.

[northway]

I get the same exact thing with everything unfrozen and being a current Citizens client. I've even escalated it to the CEO's office and they could care less.

Citizen's CC operations are fly-by-night at best and have turned me off from ever trying to use them again. Not even my private banker could get them to overturn this nonsense. I pulled high 6 figures out as a result.

Doesn't matter if you're an existing client. Doesn't matter if you head into a branch with your IDs. It's the same system and the bank could care less to have an override option.

[smcj]

@northway what you describe is the sense I get about Citizens in general.  The whole place is on an odd sort of autopilot, reminiscent of the biggest consumer banks but without at least a veneer of the sophistication.  Lots of places where things break down, no comprehension of things breaking down and no paths to handling breakdowns.

And, sadly for me, I didn't hear about Third Federal and its HELOC product until after I had closed with Citizens.

(hint for anyone reading this doing a HELOC -- check out Third Federal first, about the only difference of consequence I can find between them [other than Third Federal being the no-brainer for lowest APR] is that even though neither has a mandatory initial draw, Citizens' draw minimum is $0 while Third Federal has a first-draw minimum of $10K).

So I guess at this point I'm curious to see if getting my LexisNexis unfrozen will deal with this, and I will still report back here with results.  I'm also curious to see what Citizens' soft-pull-process offers up, if anything, but the lesson I'm learning about Citizens is to presume that things put into their processes will go boom, and to consequently be extremely conservative in dealing with anything where they are at the wheel.

[northway]

---

@smcj wrote:

@northway what you describe is the sense I get about Citizens in general.  The whole place is on an odd sort of autopilot, reminiscent of the biggest consumer banks but without at least a veneer of the sophistication.  Lots of places where things break down, no comprehension of things breaking down and no paths to handling breakdowns.

And, sadly for me, I didn't hear about Third Federal and its HELOC option until after I had closed with Citizens.

(hint for anyone reading this doing a HELOC -- check out Third Federal first, about the only difference of consequence I can find between them [other than Third Federal being the no-brainer for lowest APR] is that even though neither has a mandatory initial draw, Citizens' draw minimum is $0 while Third Federal has a first-draw minimum of $10K).

So I guess at this point I'm curious to see if getting my LexisNexis unfrozen will deal with this, and I will still report back here with results.  I'm also curious to see what Citizens' soft-pull-process offers up, if anything, but the lesson I'm learning about Citizens is to presume that things put into their processes will go boom, and to consequently be extremely conservative in dealing with anything where they are at the wheel.

---

To make matters worse, this is after Citizens closed a $25k CC I had with them for years because I dared dispute a duplicate tradeline that showed up on Equifax for the card and they interpreted as identity theft. They didn't contact me once, and closed the card. Even after determining there was no identity theft, they still refused to reopen the card outside of getting a letter from Equifax stating there was a dispute error (good f-ing luck getting any custom documentation from a credit bureau outside of a dispute letter).

I'm done with them period. Like you said, all the trappings of a large bank, but zero considerations and are running on autopilot.

I honestly hope all of their expansion plans and efforts fall flat on their face because they don't deserve it. And get this, even with Private Bank status, they don't waive a foreign transaction fee on their debit card for transactions or ATM withdrawals. Insanity.

[TrapLine]

@smcj 

Different bank but virtually the same situation. Customer of US Bank and every time I wanted to acquire a new product, they denied me. Required to present myself in an actual brick and mortar branch. Frustrating to say the least. Customer for many years ... how could they not verify me?

Did finally figure out they require me to have a verified email and telephone number (active) on file. They actually send a verfiy to them.

Found this out after many years of this not verifiable. Also, was requested to bring a Birth Certiciate, Social Security Card, current utility bill (last thirty days) and Rental Lease/Property Tax Statement. Took  a US Passport and Driver's License along. Unreal!!! It appears to work now.

[northway]

---

@TrapLine wrote:

@smcj 

Different bank but virtually the same situation. Customer of US Bank and every time I wanted to acquire a new product, they denied me. Required to present myself in an actual brick and mortar branch. Frustrating to say the least. Customer for many years ... how could they not verify me?

Did finally figure out they require me to have a verified email and telephone number (active) on file. They actually send a verfiy to them.

Found this out after many years of this not verifiable. Also, was requested to bring a Birth Certiciate, Social Security Card, current utility bill (last thirty days) and Rental Lease/Property Tax Statement. Took  a US Passport and Driver's License along. Unreal!!! It appears to work now.

---

In this case, Citizens has ZERO recourse for identity verification. If you don't pass the pre-qualification, you're done and they couldn't care one bit to alter the process to allow for manual ID verification in person.