FIA / BA Change in Terms and Conditions...not accepting the changes

[Anonymous]

Here's a twist..

I just received 3 large envelopes from FIA Cardmember Services with changes in the terms and conditions (all to B of A credit cards). The first section was telling me of an increase in the interest rate for one specific catagory - Cash Advances - from 16% to 25%. The other sections (4 pages worth) were changes in the way they catagorized certain transactions, and a bunch of legalese on other matters.

Normally interest rate changes don't bother me, since I pay off most cards at the end of the month. But this one did get under my skin, because I've been with B of A for so long, and have a score north of 800. 

I called FIA and complained about this. The first person I talked to didn't have a clue. First she said that the 25% was an average rate of the three catagories (oh REALLY), then I told her that I'm reading in black and white what ther rate is, and it mentions nothing about an average rate. "Let me talk to your supervisor"...

The "supervisor" had a better handle on this. First she explained that the catagory the rate was changed is one that I've never used (Cash Advances, such as ATM withdrawals, teller advances, overdraft, etc.). Yea, but still it didn't sit right.

Then she explained that I can decline the changes to the interest rate increase in writing to FIA.

Here's where reality becomes absurdity.

Normally when you decline a change to the terms and conditions, you've effectively told them to close the account. It's been that way for years.

"No", the supervisor explained. "If you decline the change in the interest rate increase, the rate stays the way it was, and the account stays open". And it was true, no where in the "decline" section did it say that the account would be closed if you declined the interest rate increase.

Can you believe this? In effect, FIA / BA was saying "We're going to hit you with a shovel, unless you write us and tell us you don't want to be hit with a shovel".

I then went on to tell her that I thought BA was doing a disservice to its customers, as had been evident over the last three or four years with substantial increases in fees (highest ATM fee in the country, return check charges, overdraft fees (BA kept letting a friends son overdraft his check card to the tune of $300 in overdraft PLUS $400 in overdraft fees, explained by BA as a "convenience" to the customer), and I can go on and on. When I went to refi my equity line, they wanted prime plus one, after 5 years as a perfect customer. Went somewhere else for prime less 1/2). After explaining all of this to the supervisor, her answer... Well, we ARE a for profit company. (Which is true). My response...Yea, but there is such a thing as competition.

Bottom line, READ every notice of changes in terms and condions you get. Call and ask them, if you decline the changes, will the account be closed.

Don't let them hit you with a shovel, and then have them tell you, "hey, you didn't tell us not to".

My random rant for now.

CC

PS: Anyone listening to Dave Ramsey (I get him on XM radio), and his preaching of not using credit cards? Tears apart BA and AMEX a lot, among others. Interesting philosophy.

[haulingthescoreup]

Got that too, the online variety. (This is DH's card, was originally mine, long story.) We're not doing the cash advances, etc, so we let it go. Good for you, for reading all the terms and conditions!

Enter Dave Ramsey into the search box above left, and it will tie you up for a long, long time. I'm one of those who agree with him for about the first 85-90%, and then think that he's pushing an extremist line in order to get customers.

IMO, no one should be under the control of their credit cards, but at the same time, it's crazy to cut off all your credit. My motto is, money is a great servant, but a terrible master. But it really is a great servant, so unless you just can't control your credit usage --and that does happen-- I say, keep the cards, but keep them beaten down, locked up, and seriously under control.

[Anonymous]

See this is interesting... I called BofA and asked them about the changes in terms (2 BoA accounts and 2 FIA accounts).  The lady I spoke with said yes I could reject the changes (to cash advance pricing) but if I do that I will not be able to use my credit card for cash advances, only purchases.

So either:

-She doesn't know what she's talking about

-or they don't close your entire account when you reject the changes in terms, but disable specific features of it

I had my 4 rejection letters typed up and ready to go, but now I am wondering what to do...

[fused]

Ditto here! DW received the Cash Advance APR increase but she doesn't care, she has never taken a cash advance. No change on her 7.99% APR on purchases. I haven't received anything in the mail for my FIA Fidelity Visa.

[Anonymous]

What card does she have that is 7.99% on purchases? Both my visa sig and merrill lynch are at 9.99%!

I don't know... If I don't ever do cash advances, would it be better to reject the new increased cash rates or accept the terms and not use it?

[fused]

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akhan wrote:

What card does she have that is 7.99% on purchases? Both my visa sig and merrill lynch are at 9.99%!

I don't know... If I don't ever do cash advances, would it be better to reject the new increased cash rates or accept the terms and not use it?

---

My DW has the Worldpoints MC! I haven't been able to get my cards below 9.99%. Her scores are higher than mine and keeps about 8% util on her card. Her experience with BoA has been very pleasant. What's more important cash advances or purchases?

[Anonymous]

What do they define "cash advance" as?  I have never used my CC at an ATM and probably will never.

What about those checks they send with the statement... are those "cash advances"?

Actually I realized that the merrill lynch card is at 9.99 fixed, but the boa worldpoints visa is 9.49 (prime+1.74).  Not that 0.50% makes much of a difference anyway!

[fused]

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akhan wrote:

What do they define "cash advance" as?  I have never used my CC at an ATM and probably will never.

What about those checks they send with the statement... are those "cash advances"?

Actually I realized that the merrill lynch card is at 9.99 fixed, but the boa worldpoints visa is 9.49 (prime+1.74).  Not that 0.50% makes much of a difference anyway!

---

Cash taken out of an ATM would be a cash advance. These checks we receive in our mail have special low rates such as 0% for 6 months or 3.99% APR for the life of the balance and these are BTs and not cash advances. Always read the fine print though, sometimes there are transfer fees, sometimes not. I do know that FIA charges a  fee of 3.99% for the amount to be BTed. So if I BTed 5K, I would pay $199.50...wow steep.

[Anonymous]

Yeah that's what has always stopped me from using those a lot.  However, I believe those fees are capped at a max of $75.  Still kind of steep... and seems to counteract the idea of having a 0% interest rate.

Guess I'll be sending my rejections of terms out tomorrow then!

[Anonymous]

Regarding the checks you get in your statements, you have to read the fine print very carefully.

In my experience, the checks that DON'T have teaser rates are usually treated as cash advances, usually at very high rates. The checks that DO have teaser rates usually are treated as balance transfers (even if you transfer money to your checking account), at the teaser rate or lower than a cash advance rate. Read the terms carefully! 

As for the balance transfer fee being capped, it looks like that cap may go away after March or May (can't remember) on my FIA accounts, per the change in terms I mentioned in my opening post. If that's the case, you really have to do the math to see if its worth borrowing the money. A transfer fee of say 4% (which BA is proposing) on a teaser rate good for only 6 months is really an APR north of 8% ON TOP of the teaser rate. I have some card companies offering me a balance transfer rate that's only good for two months. Yes, they DO take us for idiots, because there are some people out there that do think this is a deal. A few years ago Regions offered such a rate. I called them to tell them what I thought of the offer (they agreed it was a bad deal), and they then countered with a teaser rate of 1.9% for 11 months. Not bad.

Discover sends me checks with teaser rates all the time, and the rates, fees, and terms are there in plain english. They also send "convenience checks", where the terms are buried in the back of the booklet of checks. Those checks carry the "normal" cash advance rate, or about 24%. Some deal!

One last thing... It seems that the credit card companies have dedicated departments of contortionists  whose job it is to change a word here or a sentence there in the cardholder agreement to get you to pay a higher rate or drop you as a client. Before declining any changes in the terms and conditions, call the card company, talk to a supervisor (very important), and explicitly ask them if you do decline a certain change, will the card be cancelled or will any particular use of the card (cash advance, balance transfer, etc.) be impaired.

CC