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I don't know if I'm just a unique case, but Amex is weird, plus have a question.

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Open123
Super Contributor

Re: I don't know if I'm just a unique case, but Amex is weird, plus have a question.


@Anonymous wrote:

Unlike a lot of other lenders, however, they seem to be a hair better at proactive (versus reactive) risk modeling.



Very well put.

 

More so than other lenders, AmEx's modelling tries to predict where you're going rather than where you've been.

Message 11 of 18
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: I don't know if I'm just a unique case, but Amex is weird, plus have a question.


@Covet wrote:

I have no balances to transfer.

 

I already got dinged for the hardpulls, that was 4 pts or so.

 

Closing  (it was less than a year old the HSBC account dropped me by 23 pts...

 

I want to see what happens, honestly.  And why I'm holding off on the Amex offers, 

 

 


Balance transfer not going to matter either. You got dinged for the hardpulls. You are going to get dinged again for opening the new accounts which decreases your AAoA. Closing the HSBC account might have hit you hard because of your utilization ratio.

Message 12 of 18
Covet
Established Member

Re: I don't know if I'm just a unique case, but Amex is weird, plus have a question.

Closing it only hurt me because it was the only revolving account showing on my credit report.  My Util has always been 0-1%.  I was asking about what I should do with an Amex account make it look the best on my CR (and sorta commenting on the fact Amex is letting me be appproved  for things that others have had issues with).

 

Note the HSBC account was only 8 moths old (opened in June of 2011).  My AoAA is only 2 years, will probably effect it...  My utilization is 0, what is hurting me is not having any revolving accounts at all show up.

 

Not showing up enough for Amex to not make me offers though...

 

and I like open123's response... explains alot.

Message 13 of 18
pipeguy
Senior Contributor

Re: I don't know if I'm just a unique case, but Amex is weird, plus have a question.

I think AmEx is aggressively trying to take a greater share of the credit card market (usage) and that is reflected in how they market their cards today. Based on recent reports AmEx usage is growing in the share of the finite complete market.

 

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120222006974/en/American-Express-Moves-MasterCard-U.S.-Credi...

 

AmEx was "born" as a business card which was also known as a Travel & Entertainment card, much like Diners Club or Carte Blanche. These cards were not designed as general usage credit cards, they were charge cards that had to be paid in full every month. Typically expense account cards, many times in a company name too. I don't know what happened to Carte Blanche, but Diners Club was purchased by CitiBank and then after a few years converted to a MasterCard, both are gone now I believe. Diners Club did have a "pay over time option" credit line attached to it where you could exercise a credit extension voucher with your statement, but the general idea was to pay the account balance in full with every statement.

 

American Express grew to the largest T&E card by offering just charge cards, then in the late 1980's AmEx added the Optima Card which was a credit card with a credit limit, followed by their Blue Card which I think was called "Open" also a credit card. The most common AmEx was the Green card, then when your spending increased you were invited to upgrade to a Gold Card at a higher AF, but really very little difference from the Green. In the late 80's (1990-ish)  AmEx came out with their Platinum Card which was invite only after you averaged $50,000 or so a year on the Gold Card. The Platinum card was a much higher AF ($300) and you could not apply for it, you had to be invited and qualify through usage history. After 2 years or so using the platinum card you were offered a credit line in addition to the regular charge PIF terms, much like what Diners Club offered. Platinum cards were rarely seen in the 1990's. Because AmEx was marketed as a T&E card, personal income and spending was not really a big factor since typically "business" backed these accounts. Today AmEx is considered a general usage card and they market their products as such. In 1990, 64% of our U.S. billings came from the travel and entertainment sectors and 36% came from retail and other sectors. That proportion has now been more than reversed. In 2011, only 28% of U.S. billings came from the travel and entertainment sectors. ****

 

Over the last 5 years or so AmEx seems to have taken the attitude that not only are they going to be a general usage product, but Annual Fees are good so they want every card member to carry 2 or 3 or 6 different AmEx cards (including their co-branded products such as Costco, Delta, Hilton, etc). Today we have entry level AmEx cards with a $3-500 hard limit (sub-prime stuff), we have "Pre-Paid" Amex logo cards and credit limits that triple after 90 days! The rainbow of colors and flavors vary mostly by what they charge as far as annual fees, and yes everyone will qualify for a Platinum card either at once or after a year of proper handling of a AmEx starter card, just as long as you pay the $450 AF. As of 12.31.2011 AmEx had total worldwide Cards-in-force of 97.4 million (including Cards issued by third parties).****

 

 If you do the math the amount collected just for Annual Fees is staggering every year at 98 million X AF.

 

The marketing AmEx has used over the last 10 years or so has exploded the usage and number of AmEx cards and the prestige of AmEx has been just as strongly marketed. When Amex was a business based T&E card you rarely saw anyone under 30 carrying even a green card, today if you qualify for a MasterCard at 18, they want you to have an AmEx right next to it and by 21 you'll be sporting a Platinum card.

 

Charge off and default rates for AmEx are lower than MC/V even though the entry standards are very low today compared to 20 years ago. I think this is partly due to the prestige factor and partly do to the fact that members generally Pay for the "privilege" to carry an AmEx meaning they have a vested interest in the card of sorts. I know that as a group AmEx members are higher income and tend to have greater average sales based on disposable income. If you look at the over all picture on how AmEx is expanding today to almost anyone with a pulse as a general purpose card, I think you are going to see their market share continue to increase. I also think the the "prestige" of lower charge offs and defaults is going to back fire with their lower issue standards. Of course AmEx makes a ton of money from their AF's and they tend to watch their members closely with monthly soft pulls and their Financial Review process.

 

I admit that I carried an AmEx from 1978 until 2005 (Platinum 1990 through 2005). AmEx never asked me for a financial review, but if they had I would have told them where to stick their cards. I also had an AmEx Merchant Account  from 1973 through 2008. The marketing Amex uses is one of the best out there and creates loyalty with their card holders. Today's AmEx is not the same product it was when it was a T&E product and that is good for AmEx because they evolved with the market where Diners Club and Carte Blanche didn't.

 

Today you qualify for AmEx Platinum after one month? Or Get a Green Card and a Gold, why not have two? It's all by design to extract more AF's up front, thank you for being a loyal AmEx member since 2012.

 

PS - to all the Amex fans, these comments are based on my personal experience with AmEx and observations of their marketing. I am not "hating" on AmEx so please don't read it that way.  I also know I ignored the 1999 issuing of the Centurion Card - by design. 

 

**** Source - 2011 AMX SEC Annual Report filing.    

Message 14 of 18
Covet
Established Member

Re: I don't know if I'm just a unique case, but Amex is weird, plus have a question.

Hey, I was just surprised at the offer.  (for both the charge card and the credit card).   And was asking a question about how I would effect my score. I did make a lotta yapping beforehand though.

 

And wanted to know when I should pay and when to improve my credit score.

 

 

 

 

Message 15 of 18
pipeguy
Senior Contributor

Re: I don't know if I'm just a unique case, but Amex is weird, plus have a question.


@Covet wrote:

Hey, I was just surprised at the offer.  (for both the charge card and the credit card).   And was asking a question about how I would effect my score. I did make a lotta yapping beforehand though.

 

And wanted to know when I should pay to improve my credit score.

   



Please don't take my post wrong, I was not responding to any one post or question, I was just offering a look as to how/why today one qualifies for cards so easily with a bit of a history of Amex and their business plan.

 

 

Message 16 of 18
bichonmom
Senior Contributor

Re: I don't know if I'm just a unique case, but Amex is weird, plus have a question.


@Covet wrote:

I have 0 utilization. 

 

None of them have been reported to the CR's yet, but I got a 7500 Discover, a 1500 Freedom and a 500 Capone (go figure?).  I'm honestly, earnestly waiting for those to show to see what they have done to my credit. 

 

Besides me dropping the HSBC card with made that dent...


Amex takes a while to report. I've read here about 6 to 8 weeks. Others should report sooner, but each CC is different. You may not lose points. Last year, I had no CCs and 2 PIF installment loans. I got 3 CCs in March/April and 1 in June. My score actually went up a little bit. I think because it incl revolving accts, which it hadn't. Your AAoA is already so low that the new CCs may not lower it. Only time will tell.

EQ FICO 750 | TU FICO 761 (Walmart) | EX FAKO 767 | Goal: 800+

Edits, funky spacing and spelling due to my iPad not getting along with the forum editor!

Message 17 of 18
Covet
Established Member

Re: I don't know if I'm just a unique case, but Amex is weird, plus have a question.

And that's what I'm waiting for... until I see the new cards show on my CR I have no idea how it's effect my scrore, and also why I'm holding off on the Amex offers. 

Message 18 of 18
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