Is Amex in decline?

[Anonymous]

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@Anonymous wrote:

-There are usually cheaper hotel options in any given city than the comparable Starwood hotel. Just searching Expedia, Priceline, etc. and I have been able to find deals that trump the 2.3% return on my SPG card. Furthermore a lot of hotels no longer charge extra for WIFI or breakfast, but Starwood full service properties largely still do.

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This is the #1 reason why I'd never truly thought of an SPG.

[drsmith]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@drsmith wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@drsmith wrote:

Obviously product quality means something to me. That's why if Ferreira cut their prices by hundreds of thousands I would suspect they are in a hole, and are trying to cash in on their brand for people who couldn't afford the real thing.

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I wasn't suggesting that they cut their prices.  I was talking about production of an entirely new model, one that isn't currently in existence.  Something to compete in the ~$50k market. 

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You're missing the point.

What makes Ferrari what it is, is exclusivity and rarity. Making one for the average consumer takes away from the higher end ones. Lots of people can afford a $50k, not many can spend 6 figures. The stallion logo would be everywhere, and thus, less exclusive and impressive.

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I think you're both sort of missing the point... Exclusivity has it's merits but Ferrari will never produce an affordable car because it goes against their core principles. It took Enzo and the gang almost 20 years of before they even produced or sold a street legal car. They only did that to help fund their racing ambitions. It's also impossible to produce something with the same level of craftsmanship as a Ferarri and make it affordable.

That said, if you want a Ferrari for the masses then buy a Fiat 

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Thank you for restating my post, and telling me I missed the point.

[Open123]

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@Anonymous wrote:

-There are usually cheaper hotel options in any given city than the comparable Starwood hotel. Just searching Expedia, Priceline, etc. and I have been able to find deals that trump the 2.3% return on my SPG card. Furthermore a lot of hotels no longer charge extra for WIFI or breakfast, but Starwood full service properties largely still do.

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Are you looking at full redemptions, or "points + cash" options?  

I agree, the 2.7% forex fee is expensive.  I'll see if the fee occurs when I book int'l hotels from my US site.  At the location, I'll usually use a forex free card.

Regarding breakfast (Gold members get free wifi), I've often preferred Starwoods for the reason they don't offer free breakfast.  I use SPG hotels mainly for business travel.  And, while I'm working, the last thing I want to see around my hotel are kids on family vacations, younger travellers, and the sort who are into free breakfast.  The latter isn't meant to be derogatory, but when I'm on firm business, I prefer my surroundings professional.

One of the reasons we don't use Hilton hotels is because the "free breakfast" brings in families with tons of kids running around and a bunch of young first time travellers making every penny count.  This is fine if I'm on a family vacation, but unacceptable if I'm focussed on conducting business.

I think the SPG is more geared towards business travellers.  

[espnjunkie]

Those are all good points. The high forex fees are a big drawback of amex cards. They are normally geared towards people who spend alot and travel, but a 2.7% forex fee is a slap in the face and really drags down any reward benefits you receive. It's also good to point out that rack rates can be sky high and I normally just look for the best hotel deal available, not necessarily what brand the hotel is. Down the road platinum may be a nice card to have as well as linking it to a Zync card for max benefit. Amex overcharges on the AF for green/gold/pr gold big time largely due to prestige. Zync on its own is useless for travel rewards. Haha the frustration of finding out that there is no one great rewards card out there.

It's a concern about the AF hike. The no black out dates is realy true for any rewards program and always comes with strings attached.

[Open123]

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@Anonymous wrote:

This is the #1 reason why I'd never truly thought of an SPG.

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There's also another perspective.

I tend to stay away from hotels that do offer the super discounts on expedia, hotwire.com, etc...because the surroundings will be less predictable.  For instance, if I'm having a first meeting at my hotel lounge, the last thing I'd want is for group of cheap travellers donning flip flops who got the room on hotwire.com.  This is fine for a personal vacation, but now when it's for professional travel.

For personal travel, I'll use hotwire etc...

For professional, I will always choose those hotels who do not participate on those deep discount sites.  The Ritz, SPG, and Mariotts come to mind.  Once Hyatt offered their rooms on hotwire, I've stopped using them for business travel, though I try to get lucky and score them on personal vacations.

[Open123]

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@espnjunkie wrote:

Those are all good points. The high forex fees are a big drawback of amex cards. They are normally geared towards people who spend alot and travel, but a 2.7% forex fee is a slap in the face and really drags down any reward benefits you receive. It's also good to point out that rack rates can be sky high and I normally just look for the best hotel deal available, not necessarily what brand the hotel is. Down the road platinum may be a nice card to have as well as linking it to a Zync card for max benefit. Amex overcharges on the AF for green/gold/pr gold big time largely due to prestige. Zync on its own is useless for travel rewards. Haha the frustration of finding out that there is no one great rewards card out there.

It's a concern about the AF hike. The no black out dates is realy true for any rewards program and always comes with strings attached.

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For an SPG rate, you may find a non-SPG hotel cheaper, but you won't find a cheaper SPG hotel anywhere else.

For example, when you book through SPG, they guarantee the best rate.  If you find another cheaper advertised rate for their hotel, they refund 10% difference, upgrade to a suite, and offer you 5k SPG points.

Again, the value is that price integrity maintains the consistency of the experience.  There are times when this is more valuable than money.  

[Anonymous]

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@Open123 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

-There are usually cheaper hotel options in any given city than the comparable Starwood hotel. Just searching Expedia, Priceline, etc. and I have been able to find deals that trump the 2.3% return on my SPG card. Furthermore a lot of hotels no longer charge extra for WIFI or breakfast, but Starwood full service properties largely still do.

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Are you looking at full redemptions, or "points + cash" options?  

I agree, the 2.7% forex fee is expensive.  I'll see if the fee occurs when I book int'l hotels from my US site.  At the location, I'll usually use a forex free card.

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I wasn't referring to a specific redemption option. Just that in most cities I've found a comparably rated hotel at a lower price than the equivalent *wood property in that city. I mostly travel for leisure so I have more time to look into these things when I do travel. I can certainly understand for business why its more practical to stick with one chain. The general value of a Starpoint (i.e. what most travel blogs/reviews) is 2.3 cents when used to redeem hotel stays. That should be the average of all redemption options, full and C&P. It's harder to place a monetary value on point transfers b/c miles can vary depending on what sort of airfare you redeem. The way I calculate price (for *wood vs non *wood comparison) is take the number of Starpoints*2.3 cents + any cash payment (if C&P) and see if that ends up cheaper than a comparable non *wood hotel before I book.

Forex fee should apply. I have not booked an international hotel yet but have some travel to China coming up. I contacted CS and they said the forex fee would apply even if I booked online here since that property manages the transaction. On SPG.com the prices are in foreign currency of that hotel's country so I suspected a forex fee, hence calling in to confirm.

[Anonymous]

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@drsmith wrote:

Thank you for restating my post, and telling me I missed the point.

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You're welcome... I hope my comment wasn't taken the wrong way, I'm often cynical without an overt intention of mockery.

Anyway, on the Amex decline or brand dilution topic.

I think they're doing a pretty good job at things. I agree some of the travel perks sound better than they actually are. I usually stay in smaller boutique hotels that I find on http://www.tablethotels.com so I don't have much use for the FHR stuff. Accruing points is nice but it doesn't change my spending habits or the card I use.

I rarely call customer service for any of my cards but I have used the http://twitter.com/AskAmex to get some easier questions answered which is sort of cool. The one time I have called was for the Purchase Protection which was a bit arduous but they did end up paying $600 for an iPhone replacement.  

They do have a diverse product offering, unlike high-end sports car manufacturers, and cater to a wide demographic but they still have quite a bit of cachet.

In the end I feel like I'm getting what I want out of Amex. 

[espnjunkie]

I suppose the green card can be very worthwhile if you make sure to use the amex website to book your travel. Tons of hotels, car rentals, even travelocity all have 3X membership rewards points offers that can be used unlimited times. This in effect lets the green card become a 3X travel points reward card if booking flights through travelocity. A wise cardmember would be sure to frequently do this to boost his/her rewards.

[Open123]

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@espnjunkie wrote:

I suppose the green card can be very worthwhile if you make sure to use the amex website to book your travel. Tons of hotels, car rentals, even travelocity all have 3X membership rewards points offers that can be used unlimited times. This in effect lets the green card become a 3X travel points reward card if booking flights through travelocity. A wise cardmember would be sure to frequently do this to boost his/her rewards.

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Yes, all very valid points, but the Blue and Zync all offer the same 3X points at a lower cost.  The value of the Green is the full MR status, while the Blue and Zync are relegated to MR Express.

In my view, the only value of the Green is when you're downgrading from Platinum or Centurion and have a bunch of MR points you prefer to keep.  Then, downgrading to the Green has considerable value, since downgrading to the blue or Zync will mean losing MR point status.  Even then, AmEx offers the Green to these members for $30 per year, as opposed to $95.

However, the reverse isn't true.  One needs at least 30k MR points to redeem anything of value, the better strategy (in my humble opinion) is to opt for the Zync (especially with 10k promo), get points faster, and then upgrade to a MR card when ready to use the points.  If however one never plans on redeeming for travel, then stay with the Zync, because upgrading to full MR points would be of no value whatsoever.

Edit - PS - When I say redeem for travel, I mean transferring to frequent flyers with the best bonus/deal at a given time redeeming for int'l off peak business class flights. When done correctly, MR points are of considerable value at around 3 - 5% roe, depending on the value and flight redeemed.