NFC and all-in-one cards: Getting rewards, and fraud concerns

[Ghoshida]

Hello forum-members !

I'm a very slow adopter of all things tech, and still trying to get around the concept of NFC. Further, almost all credit cards say that rewards are not guaranteed with such products. 

So far, I know about three types of such non-card products.

1) Google wallet (virtual wallet, android devices)

2) Apple Pay (in conjunction with banks, iPhones)

3) All-in-one cards (Plastc, Coin, Wocket, etc., card clones stored on one card)

Do all of them support card rewards? Especially category and bonus rewards?

What happens if my device / pseudo-card is stolen and used?

What happens if I want to dispute a transaction made through these devices?

Any input will be appreciated.

[ojefferyo]

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@Ghoshida wrote:

Hello forum-members !

I'm a very slow adopter of all things tech, and still trying to get around the concept of NFC. Further, almost all credit cards say that rewards are not guaranteed with such products. 

So far, I know about three types of such non-card products.

1) Google wallet (virtual wallet, android devices)

2) Apple Pay (in conjunction with banks, iPhones)

3) All-in-one cards (Plastc, Coin, Wocket, etc., card clones stored on one card)

Do all of them support card rewards? Especially category and bonus rewards?

What happens if my device / pseudo-card is stolen and used?

What happens if I want to dispute a transaction made through these devices?

Any input will be appreciated.

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If you look in the little writing of some or all card terms and condition it will state that contactless payments will not get the rewards.

[Anonymous]

If your CC rewards are determined by MCC, some NFC processors can relay the code the give you the original category, thereby perserving the rewards. Google Wallet keeps the category. Not sure about others.

And this won't work on deals that involve specific merchants, eg. Amex offers. Once you checkout via GW, GW becomes the merchant.

[Ghoshida]

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@Anonymous wrote:

If your CC rewards are determined by MCC, some NFC processors can relay the code the give you the original category, thereby perserving the rewards. Google Wallet keeps the category. Not sure about others.

And this won't work on deals that involve specific merchants, eg. Amex offers. Once you checkout via GW, GW becomes the merchant.

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Thanks for sharing !

This is interesting. Does it depend on the terminal or the capability of device I'm using?

I'm interested in knowing because there is all this recent hype about such devices. I understand that it's easy to keep one or all of the cards in one easy-to-use device, but apart from that, is there any other benefit? 

Further, I have most of my cards simply to earn credit card rewards; I use the Wallaby app to determine which card to use, even though in most cases I remember the categories myself. If that is lost, along with the possibility of fraud / theft prevention, then I don't see any use of such devices.

Any Apple Pay users here? 

Coin users maybe?

[kdm31091]

I had no idea Apple Pay etc would mean you won't get rewards. That is a pretty major concern. As much as mobile payments keep trying to take over, I just don't see physical cards disappearing 100% anytime soon or even in the next 5 years. If it's not broke, don't fix it -- the only issue with how we swipe cards is security and EMV is going to help that issue considerably so I plan to continue swiping/inserting my card until I am literally forced to use a mobile solution. (Not only because of the rewards reason -- I didn't know that until now -- but because I do not find mobile payments any more easy than just taking 2 seconds to slide a card).

[Ghoshida]

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@kdm31091 wrote:

I had no idea Apple Pay etc would mean you won't get rewards. That is a pretty major concern. As much as mobile payments keep trying to take over, I just don't see physical cards disappearing 100% anytime soon or even in the next 5 years. If it's not broke, don't fix it -- the only issue with how we swipe cards is security and EMV is going to help that issue considerably so I plan to continue swiping/inserting my card until I am literally forced to use a mobile solution. (Not only because of the rewards reason -- I didn't know that until now -- but because I do not find mobile payments any more easy than just taking 2 seconds to slide a card).

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This is the case at least with the disclaimers put by credit cards. For e.g., from Discover's page:

PROGRAM DETAILS

* Sign up to earn 5% Cashback Bonus on up to $1,500 in combined restaurant and movie purchases made from 4/1/15 (or the date on which you sign up, whichever is later) through 6/30/15. Restaurant purchases are those made at merchants classified as full-service restaurants, cafes, cafeterias and fast food locations. Movie purchases are those made at merchants classified as movie theaters, video rental stores, and online movie ticket services. Purchases made using Near Field Communication (NFC), virtual wallets or similar technology may not be eligible. Purchases made at warehouse clubs, wholesale distributors and discount stores are not eligible. Rewards are added to your Cashback Bonus account within 2 billing periods. See Cashback Bonus Program Terms and Conditions for more information about your rewards.

I'm not looking for benefits in terms of micro-seconds either. I'm more interested in having a lighter wallet which is as safe as my current wallet if not safer.

[psm]

I have used Apple Pay at a number of retailers with four different cards and always gotten the rewards.

[Ghoshida]

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@psm wrote:
I have used Apple Pay at a number of retailers with four different cards and always gotten the rewards.

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Thanks for the data point !

[Anonymous]

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@Ghoshida wrote:

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@psm wrote:
I have used Apple Pay at a number of retailers with four different cards and always gotten the rewards.

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Thanks for the data point !

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I think now it is mainly just laywer-required protection.   The cards already have language that you won't get the rewards if the merchant MCC (or equivalent) is not "correct" and the addition of NFC/Wallet/Square etc just adds another potential point where that could be lost.   But Apple is certainly aware of the need to preserve rewards or people will not adopt (except those who do it for coolness!)

[Ghoshida]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@Ghoshida wrote:

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@psm wrote:
I have used Apple Pay at a number of retailers with four different cards and always gotten the rewards.

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Thanks for the data point !

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I think now it is mainly just laywer-required protection.   The cards already have language that you won't get the rewards if the merchant MCC (or equivalent) is not "correct" and the addition of NFC/Wallet/Square etc just adds another potential point where that could be lost.   But Apple is certainly aware of the need to preserve rewards or people will not adopt (except those who do it for coolness!)

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Interesting that you bring up square. A neighboring restaurant went from regular swiping machines to square terminal with a cool base and all that, and all of a sudden the category changed from restaurant to specialty food stores. No more 5% on Freedom / 2X on CSP, and not considered grocery on SMMC. Pretty sure it's the square implementation guys who screwed it but rewards gone as far as I'm concerned. 

I'm a bit surprised with the lawyer part. Aren't the banks pushing for NFC (Apple Pay for e.g.)? Unless that language is there only on Discover's site (not on Apple Pay yet) and maybe all others have agreed to make NFC = physical card?

Last bit: are the NFC devices protected by same anti-fraud measures? Does a phone thief get the phone + all my credit cards? Or am I being a bit too paranoid?